United States Rifle Model of 1917

My uncle was a fitter with 135(F) squadron based at Terrace BC during WW11. This was an operational squadron that flew patrols off west coast. P-40 Kitty Hawks when he was there. I believe they had Hurricanes before the P-40's.
Anyway he did mention more than once the 3006 Enfields that were available for air field defense. Most airmen did some range time . Uncle Gorden was a small man and the M1917 would have been nearly as tall as he was. He was very proud of his RCAF service. Carrying the Air Force flag in Legion parades was one of his greatest joys for many years. Not many WWII veterans still with us.
 
green said:
Canada obtained by purchase c100,000 M1917s by purchase direct from US and A of America. These were issued to all branches of the armed forces except the overseas Army. In Oct 1943 98,587 M17s were serviceable in Canada and avilaable. Post war large numbers were given to allies notably Denmark as the M51 rifle. Some of these were still on issue in Greenland into the 21st century.
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I had read of these guys - Danish Sledge Patrol on Greenland - as I recall, elite type guys from Danish Navy - couple guys together, dog team, six week patrols - out on the glaciers and interior in the night. For what they need rifles for - apparently defence against bull musk ox is a big one - they prefer a World War One battle rifle in 30-06, for what they do.
 
This thread was about US Model of 1917 rifles - known to some as P17 - was NOT about P14 rifles - so, the question was about the USA military practice to NOT stamp serial number on the bolts of the rifle - how did they keep track of which bolt went with which rifle, or did they care? As was pointed out in Post #2, could have decided that tolerances were close enough that did not matter - but I have not read that anywhere - wondering if anyone knows??
 
Serializing the bolt to the receiver was not the practice in US service. We see this with the Krags, M1903 Springfield, M1917 Enfield, M1 Garand and M14. Periodic armorer checks/inspections with a .30-06 "field" headspace gauge would ensure that rifles were kept within maximum acceptable headspace tolerances. No doubt bolts were mixed up by the troops, but that doesn't have appeared to have been a concern.
 
green said:
Canada obtained by purchase c100,000 M1917s by purchase direct from US and A of America. These were issued to all branches of the armed forces except the overseas Army. In Oct 1943 98,587 M17s were serviceable in Canada and available. Post war large numbers were given to allies notably Denmark as the M51 rifle. Some of these were still on issue in Greenland into the 21st century.
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This sounds like what my army guy was telling me. he said they fitted bolts to rifles because they were shipped separately, and then he marked the number on the bolt. If the Americans did not mark numbers on bolts, do we see numbered bolts now on Canadian M17 rifles?
 
Hitzy said:
One of the first, if not the first, rifles that required standardized specs from all manufacturers. Everything from WRA/ERA/RE was to be made to specific tolerances and drawings so every part would interchange regardless of manufacturer. Therefore S/N were not required on any part other then the receiver.
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That is the exact opposite of every story I've heard about this subject. All accounts I am aware of say that standardization was never fully achieved, and various parts don't always interchange freely. In fact, I've heard that the British armories effectively treated the three factories as three separate rifles, trying to only use the same marked parts on the guns.
 
Blastattack - what you wrote is pretty much what I read in the Charles Stratton book about the P14 production - was the rifles made for Britain in first part of WWI, under separate contracts to Britain. By 1920's (?), Britain renamed their rifles - the "P14's" became listed as the No. 3E, No. 3W and No. 3R, as if three different rifles. Later part of WWI, the same three USA factories started to make the Model of 1917 - aka P17 - and that was for US Military, not Britain - with recent and ongoing issues at Springfield Armoury (see some of General Julian Hatcher's writings), I suspect, but do not know, that the US Military was much more involved in getting E, W and R to play nice together. And, as quoted in Post #3 above, apparently they never did get complete interchangeability of parts in the 1917 rifles... They for sure never did with the P14's - based on samples that I have here - a "W" magazine box, for example, will not install onto an "R" or "E" receiver, without using grinder and files. An "E" firing pin will not turn in to a "W" cocking piece, although it fits perfectly into a cocking piece for "E" or "R".
 
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Ganderite said:
This sounds like what my army guy was telling me. he said they fitted bolts to rifles because they were shipped separately, and then he marked the number on the bolt. If the Americans did not mark numbers on bolts, do we see numbered bolts now on Canadian M17 rifles?
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M17 rifles with serial number on the bolt are likely once owned by Canada or Great Britain - and maybe other countries - for sure Canada and British had a thing about having the bolt numbered to match the receiver, on all their rifles, apparently. The USA did not, apparently. Bolts without serial number might have been spares (replacements) that were never marked, or were with standard USA issued rifles. From examples here - with use and wear, "matched" numbers can fail headspace tests, etc., whereas "mis matched", or no number on the bolt, but fitted, can have equal bearing seats, correct headspace and so on. I have a 7x57 Mauser long rifle - made by Ludw. Leowe & Co. in 1896 - with a mis-matched Mauser carbine bolt, that fits, functions and headspaces correctly (that is, passes FIELD), after all those years.
 
Ganderite said:
This sounds like what my army guy was telling me. he said they fitted bolts to rifles because they were shipped separately, and then he marked the number on the bolt. If the Americans did not mark numbers on bolts, do we see numbered bolts now on Canadian M17 rifles?
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I have a "Canadian" Model of 1917 Enfield made by Eddystone. The bolt is also Eddystone and has a matching serial number but is a fairly obvious re-stamp/forced match.
 
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