Unreal! Where do I sign up?! Deer Cull with Headshots only!

Canadians are such suckers.

Americans have created an industry around heli-culling hogs. Instead of learning something from this model and creating a unique win/win situation for everyone, Canada just goes to the public trough. Properly done, this could become a long term venture that provides job and business opportunities and/or public revenue.
 
The Hughes 500D is THE helicopter to use in rough, treed terrain as long as the altitude is not too high.

When we used them in Panama in the early 90's they cost 25 cents US PER SECOND to operate.
 
Gatehouse said:
Canadians are such suckers.

Americans have created an industry around heli-culling hogs. Instead of learning something from this model and creating a unique win/win situation for everyone, Canada just goes to the public trough. Properly done, this could become a long term venture that provides job and business opportunities and/or public revenue.
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I agree 100%.
 
VanIsleCam said:
Outstanding forum member Iron Noggin told me about this today and I called bull chit. Guess I owe him a beer.
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Looking Forward to that my Friend :wave:

ljones said:
Did you actually read the article? I shows a picture of the recovered meet being distributed to the local first nations members. Some may not have been able to be recovered as the terrain there is very rugged, but at least a lot was utilized. Better than some other culls where it was all left to rot or buried.
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And by your response, it is quite obvious you have never been to the islands in question.
On most, there is simply no place to even land a helicopter, period.
Beach access is also limited.
The article is selling a load of BS.
The vast majority of these deer are and will be left to rot.
Period.

The new limitations in the whole of Haida Gwaii is FOUR black bears per season - Limited Entry ONLY.
Guess once the blackies have their fill of the carcasses, Parks and the locals better start thinking of feeding them something else, or increasing that stupidly low AAH number...

And do not for a second misunderstand Parks stance raging stance regarding complete "Eradication".
That is their full and complete intent.
That will never be attained.
But they will spend countless dollars in follow-up programs trying to make it happen.
Just they way they roll in their own confused little world.
And apparently those in PET's Idiot Son's government concur...

One of the largest beefs have with this whole show is the way the LIEberals & Parks quietly put it together.
Very very few were informed of it's development and engagement.
No consideration was given to seeking Canadians to do the job.
No consideration was given to encouraging hunters to fill the role (drop and/or increase the possession limits, go to no bag limit, open the protected areas) which could have realized much the same removal rate, and likely a tidy little profit at the same time.
No real surprise given the underlying ARROGANCE of this moronic government.
Nope, none whatsoever.

An earlier poster did run up something that would make a hell of a lot more sense to most:
Use these resources to drive the BC wolf population down to reasonable numbers.
One hell of a lot more bang for the buck IMHO.

Whole thing stinks. As very much do those who proposed and backed it.

Cheers,
Nog
 
IronNoggin said:
Looking Forward to that my Friend :wave:



And by your response, it is quite obvious you have never been to the islands in question.
On most, there is simply no place to even land a helicopter, period.
Beach access is also limited.
The article is selling a load of BS.
The vast majority of these deer are and will be left to rot.
Period.

The new limitations in the whole of Haida Gwaii is FOUR black bears per season - Limited Entry ONLY.
Guess once the blackies have their fill of the carcasses, Parks and the locals better start thinking of feeding them something else, or increasing that stupidly low AAH number...

And do not for a second misunderstand Parks stance raging stance regarding complete "Eradication".
That is their full and complete intent.
That will never be attained.
But they will spend countless dollars in follow-up programs trying to make it happen.
Just they way they roll in their own confused little world.
And apparently those in PET's Idiot Son's government concur...

One of the largest beefs have with this whole show is the way the LIEberals & Parks quietly put it together.
Very very few were informed of it's development and engagement.
No consideration was given to seeking Canadians to do the job.
No consideration was given to encouraging hunters to fill the role (drop and/or increase the possession limits, go to no bag limit, open the protected areas) which could have realized much the same removal rate, and likely a tidy little profit at the same time.
No real surprise given the underlying ARROGANCE of this moronic government.
Nope, none whatsoever.

An earlier poster did run up something that would make a hell of a lot more sense to most:
Use these resources to drive the BC wolf population down to reasonable numbers.
One hell of a lot more bang for the buck IMHO.

Whole thing stinks. As very much do those who proposed and backed it.

Cheers,
Nog
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I have hunted there lots. I already stated that in my post if you bothered to read it in full.
 
I find the appalling part the disrespect for the taxpayer. $10,000 per deer is a poor ROI.

Maybe they should capture several wolf packs on the mainland, castrate them and release on the islands in question. Surely this would cost less than $5.7 million and would kill two birds with one stone.
 
Any unintended consequences would be limited by the lifespan of the sterile wolves. And my quick Google of the unique subspecies on the QCI comes up with ermine and marten, both of which can climb trees. I doubt the wolves would take up hunting shrews Farley Mowat style.
 
Ardent said:
-There is no screwing local hunters. They couldn’t keep up and / or didn’t want them. The environmental damage to the rainforest by deer is becoming untenable.

-The bag limit for deer on Haida Gwali has been 15 or more for a long time. If that’s changed let me know I never checked the limit as getting near it would be too much work. One of my guides has done the “big hunt” and try convincing enough people to take on that much of an endeavour, and the cost of the ferry for a truck and trailer. Non-BC folks might want to look up where Haida Gwaii is, and what it costs to get there.

-The band already has open season all over the island, no limits, and little interest in taking on a massive culling project.

-Helicopters are the most effecient method of culling, and they ain’t running machines on the BC coast for $600 an hour KePet. More likely $5,000-$10,000 per machine, per culling day, plus shooter. $600 an hour gets you a small piston training machine and a pilot that’s not going to work culling on the BC coast.

-New Zealand shooters who do this professionally will waste far less of that $10,000 a day heli time. We think nothing of hiring outside specialists in many fields, hire the best people for the job, not create the fast ferry version of culling.

-Recovering and caring for the meat is unfeasible, unless they want to supply the homeless with $100 a pound venison. Better to get the cull done and buy the shelters beef.

-No, the government certainly did not run this or any project as efficiently and perfectly as possible. But likely not 10% as bad as portrayed in this thread.
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Finally someone who knows wtf their talking about.

Bag limit of 15, possession limit of 5. Me and my friends talk about it all the time for the reason alone... But nobody can afford the trip, it's a crap ton of driving then an expensive boat ride.

The locals, or Canadian hunters weren't willing to deal with the problem. Now, I think the amount of money they spent is crazy, and not hiring Canadians for this irks me too, but all these people claiming hunters would pay to do this clearly don't understand the situation.
 
Ardent said:
Sterile wolves crossed my mind too. However six of the ten native mammals on Haida Gwaii are subspecies found nowhere else, wolves aren’t too selective in their kills and like all species relocations, there would likely be unintended consequences.
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Exactly. Adding another animal to the ecosystem could have unintended consequences that nobody can predict now. It's entirely possible the wolves would ignore the deer and pick something else to eat.

The idea of introducing a species to deal with an introduced species makes me shake my head in disbelief...
 
Suther said:
Exactly. Adding another animal to the ecosystem could have unintended consequences that nobody can predict now. It's entirely possible the wolves would ignore the deer and pick something else to eat.

The idea of introducing a species to deal with an introduced species makes me shake my head in disbelief...
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Yeah, maybe the sterile wolves will live on beavers or racoons for 10 years.
 
$2 000 000 000 to kill a lousy 598 deer??! (are those numbers close for 2017?) Pretty sure we have enough Canadian hunters, and animal control guys to do here....

If that's the kill rate they'll never put a dent in the population. If I was a Haida over there I'd be farkin' ticked! Not too long ago, the bag was 10, and I'm pretty sure there were some that were taking 20.... And everyone knew you'd never come close to killing them off. In 20 km you could count 100 deer along the road at night. They should have scrapped the bag limit and tags needed years ago.

Could invite guys in from out of province to bag a few for free. The backwards thing about it is the stupidity of requiring a guide or hunter host, and the cost of non resident tags. Absolutely ludicrous how much this is costing. They could use some of that money to hire a few full time F+W/animal control guys. If guys from NZ can throw the rule book out the window, so could we. Some lights, and boats and a team of Haida could blow those numbers away.

It's expensive taking the ferry with a truck, but it's not that expensive. Some guys haul a boat, or take an RV out there, and aren't going to go back with hundreds of pounds of meat. Like anything involving the government, they are going to screw it up. Nobody that is a proponent for this program really understands the futility, and the money we are throwing at it for nothing.

I wouldn't say boo about it, had they put together a made-in-Canada solution. They could have subsidized a ferry ticket for out of province hunters, acknowledged that they don't need handholding when there, scrapped the bag and possession limits completely, and declared them an invasive species. Along with that get rid of the season completely. Being limited to bucks in an early season, and having limits is completely ass backwards when the goal is getting the population under control. Could even offer a bounty. Plenty of guys not working steady since MacMillan Bloedel slowed down and the cannery closed in Masset. A lot of people have boats there, too, so getting out to the other islands isn't a big issue.

Just one more sign showing how out of touch the current government is with what's going on in Canada.
 
MiG25 said:
Yeah, maybe the sterile wolves will live on beavers or racoons for 10 years.
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Hilarious! I am imagining some government hippy, who has no idea how much they wouldn't like to wrestle with a big boar raccoon, or a beaver in the water suggesting that!

I think that possibly introducing another species might be the best long term solution. The wolves might be the best, but I'm not sure if it would impact the bear population. Didn't think there was a shortage of bears there.
 
Well I am a kiwi, and would like to point out that New Zealand, is likely the only country, with ongoing year round, Helicopter culling crews,
Control operations for deer,( Mostly Red deer goats, Thar and chamious) are active, every day that conditions allow choppers to fly.
WARO, = Wild animal recovery operations, is our term for it.
There is often NZ crews up here, in north America, doing live capture, of wolves etc, ie net guns from chopper.
We also able to hunt, with a finding, pointing dogs for deer, and this is a very effective method, to reduce game (deer numbers) to a low enough level, in localized area, to allow regeneration of forest cover.

Rifle wise, I say an AR most likely, from the chopper, but i know a number of shooters (cullers), still using bolt action (Sako vixen, Bruno fox) including from a chopper.
Head shots from above, maybe, I don't like them, when ground shooting.
I doubt, that there is much recovery of animals from chopper, to expensive, but maybe, as the price of roughly ten grand a deer, is absurd, they be broke in a day, if working that way, in new Zealand,
Huges 500 d & c model, is likely the favoured chopper for this type of work, I expect well north of a grand an hour, in a remote location.

Its not that Canadian's couldn't get the job done, but neither dogs for deer or helicopters for game control, are allowed, and it would take much expense and time, And likely a few chopper crashes, for those skills levels, to be built up.

right now, I wait for the incoming
 
southernman said:
Well I am a kiwi, and would like to point out that New Zealand, is likely the only country, with ongoing year round, Helicopter culling crews,
Control operations for deer,( Mostly Red deer goats, Thar and chamious) are active, every day that conditions allow choppers to fly.
WARO, = Wild animal recovery operations, is our term for it.
There is often NZ crews up here, in north America, doing live capture, of wolves etc, ie net guns from chopper.
We also able to hunt, with a finding, pointing dogs for deer, and this is a very effective method, to reduce game (deer numbers) to a low enough level, in localized area, to allow regeneration of forest cover.

Rifle wise, I say an AR most likely, from the chopper, but i know a number of shooters (cullers), still using bolt action (Sako vixen, Bruno fox) including from a chopper.
Head shots from above, maybe, I don't like them, when ground shooting.
I doubt, that there is much recovery of animals from chopper, to expensive, but maybe, as the price of roughly ten grand a deer, is absurd, they be broke in a day, if working that way, in new Zealand,
Huges 500 d & c model, is likely the favoured chopper for this type of work, I expect well north of a grand an hour, in a remote location.

Its not that Canadian's couldn't get the job done, but neither dogs for deer or helicopters for game control, are allowed, and it would take much expense and time, And likely a few chopper crashes, for those skills levels, to be built up.

right now, I wait for the incoming
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AR, dogs, and helicopters aren't allowed for deer here regardless of who's doing the hunting, so it makes zero sense to allow foreigners the permission to do what Canadians can't legally.

Head shots from a chopper are ridiculous. I don't believe it for a second.

No reason that Canadians couldn't do it. We have skilled hunters and pilots just the same as everywhere else. I consider it an insult to Canadians, and the locals.

As long as the rules are being bent, let the Haida do it from boats at night. A few boats could kill 600 in a week.
 
Our helicopter pilot in Panama was an excellent longline Kiwi pilot in the 500D and he had done a lot of New Zealand culls. He told us that the shots were usually pretty close, they'd spot the deer and then descend down to them and usually neck shoot them from fairly close range.

They were retrieving the deer for exporting the meat to Europe.

Lex was our best pilot in the 3 years I spent in Panama on our helicopter supported drill program. When you were sending loads with Lex you just put your hand out and he would put the longline hook into your hand............
 
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