Unrestricted AR type rifle in .223?

6GunJustice said:
Ahhhhh ... thanks for the clarification! Gonna have to leave it to fate as I will have to wait abit ... simply not an option right at this time. Aaaaarrrg! This is KILLING me! If the inconceivable happens with the 'gods' smiling at me and it is still available in a couple months, I will be all over it like a fat kid on a smartie! I'm gonna have to hit the range this weekend hard with my stupid pistols to blow off some of this stress! LOL

Just to clarify, the LAR15 mags will not work on the AR180 ... correct?

6Gun
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The original AR180 does not use AR15 pattern mags. The newer AR180b does.
 
Ar180shooter said:
"I just sold my Swiss Arms and I thought it was a great rifle but didn't live up to the hype in the accuracy department. "

I really have to question if you did a proper accuracy test with a variety of match ammo and handloads. Also be aware that bulk ammo does not give great accuracy. I did a thread testing Swiss Arms rifles using a variety of bulk, premium and handloaded ammo. Bulk ammo shot around 2-3 moa, premium 1-2, and handloads were 1 MOA. They were all 10 round groups. This is quite good for a rack grade service rifle, and you won't be beating it unless you get a bolt action or a custom match grade AR.
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Like I said in the post I only used American Eagle 55gr FMJ and my piston operated 12.5 inch PWS AR made groups almost half the size of the Swiss. That was also done with a 1-4 on the AR and a 2.5-16 on the Swiss so the Swiss should have definitely had the advantage. Also add to that my Swiss only had about 200 rounds through it and my AR has over 3000.
I never got around to running heavier or match ammo through it and while I did build some 60gr Nosler handloads for it I never had a chance to test them.
I am sure the Swiss was capable of better groups with the right ammo but I shoot a lot and am not going to run match or handloads through it all the time. I want a rifle that makes decent groups with my AE FMJ and is capable of excellent groups with handloads. My HK SL8 does that. It makes nice groups with FMJ and if it's anything like the last one I owned it will do sub MOA with match and handloads.
 
The 180-B on the EE right now for $2000 is ridiculous. I wouldn't pay over $1700 for a used one and for that it better come with some extra's like the scope rail and a few mags. The Scope rail was $80 from Stormwerkz (might be more now) and other than that the rifle is fine without any other mods (IMO). If you buy it and have dreams of turning it into a NR AR you will be disappointed. It is a great rifle and stocks and quadrails just make it heavy and I think they make it look silly.
I sold mine for $1600 and gave mags, ammo, scope rail, scope with it.

Good luck, be patient and you'll find the right rifle.
 
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There is/was a couple 180b's on Irunguns for 1400-1499$ within the last week. The one on EE is based on EE pricing, which is retail +25%.
 
cr5 said:
Like I said in the post I only used American Eagle 55gr FMJ and my piston operated 12.5 inch PWS AR made groups almost half the size of the Swiss. That was also done with a 1-4 on the AR and a 2.5-16 on the Swiss so the Swiss should have definitely had the advantage. Also add to that my Swiss only had about 200 rounds through it and my AR has over 3000.
I never got around to running heavier or match ammo through it and while I did build some 60gr Nosler handloads for it I never had a chance to test them.
I am sure the Swiss was capable of better groups with the right ammo but I shoot a lot and am not going to run match or handloads through it all the time. I want a rifle that makes decent groups with my AE FMJ and is capable of excellent groups with handloads. My HK SL8 does that. It makes nice groups with FMJ and if it's anything like the last one I owned it will do sub MOA with match and handloads.
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So just as I thought, you didn't do any ammo testing. You can't expect every rifle to like every load. My Swiss doesn't shoot Winchester White Box worth a damn, but does OK with Norinco and Federal M193. Handloads cost me around the same as cheap bulk ammo, so I can't complain of the cost of shooting it with them. When I had my SL8, WWB shot around 6" at 100 yards, but I wouldn't judge the accuracy of the platform on one type of ammo. You have to actually test the accuracy poential before you can make any comment on it being "over hyped".
 
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Ar180shooter said:
So just as I thought, you didn't do any ammo testing. You can't expect every rifle to like every load. My Swiss doesn't shoot Winchester White Box worth a damn, but does OK with Norinco and Federal M193. Handloads cost me around the same as cheap bulk ammo, so I can't complain of the cost of shooting it with them. When I had my SL8, WWB shot around 6" at 100 yards, but I wouldn't judge the accuracy of the platform on one type of ammo. You have to actually test the accuracy poential before you can make any comment on it being "over hyped".
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I have 5000 rounds of AE (and always buy more when I see it for a good price) so whatever I buy has to shoot it decently. I have 3 semi auto 223's and the Swiss shot the AE the worst of all of them. I'm sure it would have shot handloads much better but with the amount I shoot I could never keep up on the reloader to feed my rifles if they all got a diet of reloads.
That plus the 5 inch point of impact shift when transitioning from the bi-pod to supporting it just in front of the magwell was enough for me to let it go. The rifle was built like a Swiss watch, it was beautifully machined and was so smooth, but it just didn't live up to my expectations for accuracy.
I realize you can't judge a rifle based on results from one type of ammo but since that is all I feed my rifles and none of my rifles will ever see a single round of Norinco garbage if it can't at least group decently with AE 55gr then it isn't for me. My other 223's can make 2 inch groups with AE at 100yds and the Swiss needed to be at 50yds to do that so I let it go.
I find the build quality of the HK to be as good as the Swiss and it has a much better barrel so with the mods done to my HK to make it more ergonomic and better looking I'm very happy with my replacement for the Swiss. Plus with the current situation the Swiss is in it was easy to let go when I found someone that wanted it and was willing to give a decent price. My last HK shot everything decently but 75gr match was it's favorite and would easily shoot sub moa all day with it.

Don't get defensive, I loved my Swiss and am not bashing it, I clearly stated in my post that I only used one type of ammo in it and I'm sure it would do better with a little experimenting but it just wasn't for me.

My PWS Mk112 AR
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The HK
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My Franken build with ATRS 18 inch with integrated brake, the scope now rides in a QD PEPR mount as I couldn't get it far enough forward for proper eye relief and was too low in these rings for a comfortable cheek weld.
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My AR180B arrived in the mail yesterday. I must say it is a very simple, very light, rifle, I can see why they are so popular. It makes my AR15 seem heavy and complicated by comparison. Unfortunately I had to resell mine to fund an unexpected purchase (I found a rare Irwin Peterson WWII M1 Carbine, that I just could't resist). The AR180B sold for full asking price ($1435) within an hour on the EE last night.
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jonythebeast said:
You could get an su-16 and get a few modifications to make it look more AR like.
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A POS is still a POS, no mater how you dress it up...save up your pennies if you really want a non-restricted, black rifle you can have fun with...or i'll sell you my AR which sits in my safe and does nothing now...then you can spend more money dressing it up and still only take it to the range...my solution...i bought a Tavor
 
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