UPDATE: Rossi Ranch Hand Mares Leg

[carverk]

The Lee Enfield is they only rifle you can safely carry with a round in the chamber half cocked!
No matter which lever action rifle you are using you cannot trust the safety.
I sometimes work as Bush forman and anybody packing a rifle or shotgun with a round in the chamber is fired!
This includes myself

 

[BabySeal]

I dont see a problem with hunting with a round in the chamber and the hammer at the half ####. EDIT* That is, if you are holding it in your hands.

The manually applied firing pin safety that Rossi has added to this design really is ridiculous and I hope it is NOT on the ranch hand.

You can cycle the action all you want with the safety on. You can pull the trigger and drop the hammer too. But it wont fire. All the safety does is block the firing pin from moving. Under stress, will you remember that the stupid "thingamajiggy" (Is this what we are oficially calling it?) is there? I know some folks are buying this for defensive purposes. It would be pretty hard to operate that tiny safety in a stressful situation. And again, thats IF you remember you applied it.

There's nothing wrong with carrying it with an empty chamber. Thats definately the safest way. And it seems to me that this gun has one of the fastest actions you can get.

If you are bush hunting though (And this may or may not be your favourite gun for this), its somewhat of a loud noise to cycle the action. If you have managed to creep up on something, its a real piss-off to have done all that work just to have the game get spooked away buy your action noise.

Pulling the hammer back from half to full #### is pretty quiet, or silent. And if, for whatever reason, you decide to cycle the action, it will still work, and fire that second round just fine.

The only good thing I can see the safety being there for is unloading by cycling the action. But even then, I think the benefits are more psycological than physical.

 

[H Wally]

Half ####.

Touche - I forgot about half ####, since I don't really consider it a safety The damn thing can #### itself without you knowing, so I don't trust it at all... though in the right situation I may use it with a rd in the chamber if I'm holding the gun in my hands and actively stalking a deer. In that case it's nice to have a quiet way of readying the gun.

Personally I actually like the crossbolt safety on some lever guns. Strikes me as reliable and functional.

Same with the enfield - has a true safety and half #### that locks the gun up. If it had a ring on the back of the bolt like a K31 rather than just a ribbed pull tab it would be perfect.... or at least far easier to operate with cold wet hands..... maybe I should get a spare one and alter it....

 

[burnt_servo]

is it that difficult to carry your rifle with a empty chamber ? ( some exceptions apply ....... )

i don't see the 1/2 #### on the 1892's as being any sort of problem ,

that siad i really like what browning has done with their blr , you set the hammer to 1/2 #### , then tip the hammer head forward , making it virtually impossible for the hammer to strike the firing pin .

 

[Foxer]

Let's say you're in bear country... What's faster/more likely to hang you up in a high stress situation though: racking one in, or fiddling with a safety so small I can't seem to see it in the photo's available?

Why are you asking me? I've got guns that i don't even know if the safety works

I can dig the argument for emptying the tube I guess.

That's the only real big 'advantage' i could realistically see. And i don't know for sure if the gun even cycles with the safety on. I assume it will, but i don't know. (my carbine doesn't have the safety)

One thing I've noticed about some of the vids on youtube, there does seem to be several guys having trouble loading. I suspect they are typical youtube morons who don't cycle the action completely. I also think it has part to do with that ugly oversized loop. Just something i've noticed....

Maybe the loop is the issue. Maybe they're just trying to go really fast before they're familiar with the action.

My carbine is pretty smooth and i haven't had a problem. But i guess it can always be short stroked.

 

[Can-down]

Mostly it looks like the issue those guys were having is working that oversized lever all the way without a proper anchoring of the short butt.
It's much easier to crank the lever all the way when the gun is held firm at the butt end...trying to do it as fast as possible doesn't make it easier as well.

 

[Foxer]

Mostly it looks like the issue those guys were having is working that oversized lever all the way without a proper anchoring of the short butt.
It's much easier to crank the lever all the way when the gun is held firm at the butt end...trying to do it as fast as possible doesn't make it easier as well.

Yeah. I did try cycling mine the other day without anchoring the butt - but it's a heavier gun too. I did find tho that if you sort of allow the barrel to drop just a little bit before you start levering, you kind of can put more 'leverage' on it and it cycles very aggressively.

I dunno - just have to play with it till you master it i guess.

 

[canuckgunny]

EDIT* That is, if you are holding it in your hands.

I think that this is exactly what has us all so interested... and even though a 'normal' hunting/utility rifle can be slung for hands-free, this will be what really sets the RRH apart... and makes it potentially worth discussing appropriate safety measures not only for the oddity of the rifle, but for the unique conditions under which we'll be toting it around.

Why are you asking me? I've got guns that i don't even know if the safety works

Fair enough, just throwin ideas around.

Thanks all.

edit:

You can cycle the action all you want with the safety on. You can pull the trigger and drop the hammer too. But it wont fire. All the safety does is block the firing pin from moving. Under stress, will you remember that the stupid "thingamajiggy" (Is this what we are oficially calling it?) is there?

Thanks for the rundown on how their design operates. And yes, that is what I'M officially calling it, but I can't speak for the entire thread. I think if the gun comes with one, I vote we adopt the nomenclature

 

[Trapper-in-Cochrane]

Holy smokes,

Look at this.

The Rossi Trail Judge. Its a .410.

Anyone know if this will be available in Canada?

 

[driller212]

Anyone know if this will be available in Canada?

it has been discussed earlier, they are illegal in the states for some reason (cant remember exactly.. something about it being a pistol shotgun?) and are being discontinued, so I imagine that POSSIBLY some might make it here to canada if someone tries to buy them, but you better work hard to get your hands on one since there arent many of them out there that I am aware of.

Hope that helps,

J

 

[Ardent]

The main thing I find curious is more guns are sold for wilderness defence to people that live in Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, GTA than all the north combined. Up north, people generally carry sensible choices where the threat is real (I don't forsee encountering many guys on the territories border Alberta with mare's legs in the bush). I think the most well armed guy you'll ever find in the bush is an urbanite with a gun fetish who goes out 3 weeks a year! An old trapper I met outside of Fort Nelson a couple hours, air access only in prime grizzly country, didn't have anything but a .22 Mag revolver as I understood it. He'd been there at least 20 years too. I carry, and I'm not against it, it's just a curious dispersal of guns of this type... mare's legs (to be), 8" 870's, etc etc... they're utterly almost entirely urban in their distribution. Up north you will see 12 and 14" 870's, .30-30's, .375 H&H bolt guns, revolvers .44 Mag and greater, but this thing... I doubt it.

 

[H Wally]

To answer your statement....


.... spare cash and spare time


Now where's an update on that double rifle????

 

[driller212]

The main thing I find curious is more guns are sold for wilderness defence to people that live in Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, GTA than all the north combined. Up north, people generally carry sensible choices where the threat is real (I don't forsee encountering many guys on the territories border Alberta with mare's legs in the bush). I think the most well armed guy you'll ever find in the bush is an urbanite with a gun fetish who goes out 3 weeks a year! An old trapper I met outside of Fort Nelson a couple hours, air access only in prime grizzly country, didn't have anything but a .22 Mag revolver as I understood it. He'd been there at least 20 years too. I carry, and I'm not against it, it's just a curious dispersal of guns of this type... mare's legs (to be), 8" 870's, etc etc... they're utterly almost entirely urban in their distribution. Up north you will see 12 and 14" 870's, .30-30's, .375 H&H bolt guns, revolvers .44 Mag and greater, but this thing... I doubt it.

Look everyone mr negative is back haha

Just poking fun ardent, it is good to have some ridicule.

I have no extensive bush experience by any means, but from what I understand when you encounter a bear it usually is only necessary to fire off a shot to scare the bear and not to hit it (therefore caliber really shouldnt matter).
as seen here.

[youtube]uMbnmLLnsfw[/youtube]

where people live isnt necessarily where people work, yes I am from Alberta, but I will be working near Dawson this summer in the Yukon, and since there are many bear encounters with the work I am involved in, I want some security, and given Canada's laws this little rifle fits the bill for me.

I have explained this to you before but we seem to keep having the same conversation every few days haha. but basically yes it is a novelty gun that people dont need but it is likely a fun firearm for plinking and hunting should someone want to do that, but it can double as a nice handy animal defense rifle as it has the necessary power to take down any animal (short of a sasquatch ) with a well placed shot at the short distances that attacks occur in.

 

[burnt_servo]

The main thing I find curious is more guns are sold for wilderness defence to people that live in Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, GTA than all the north combined. Up north, people generally carry sensible choices where the threat is real (I don't forsee encountering many guys on the territories border Alberta with mare's legs in the bush). I think the most well armed guy you'll ever find in the bush is an urbanite with a gun fetish who goes out 3 weeks a year! An old trapper I met outside of Fort Nelson a couple hours, air access only in prime grizzly country, didn't have anything but a .22 Mag revolver as I understood it. He'd been there at least 20 years too. I carry, and I'm not against it, it's just a curious dispersal of guns of this type... mare's legs (to be), 8" 870's, etc etc... they're utterly almost entirely urban in their distribution. Up north you will see 12 and 14" 870's, .30-30's, .375 H&H bolt guns, revolvers .44 Mag and greater, but this thing... I doubt it.

this is the closest thing to packing a handgun in the bush without going into all the politics and paper work to get a wilderness atc ..... ( besides packing an antique ) .

and considering they haven't even been released yet , how does a person expect to even consider seeing them out in the bush ?

give it 15 or 20 years for them to catch up with the head start all the other rifles in current use already have .

my only beef is choice of calibers , if they came out in something heavier than 45 colt ( like 454 casull , or 460 s&w ) i'd be putting a deposite down on one right now too .

 

[driller212]

and considering they haven't even been released yet , how does a person expect to even consider seeing them out in the bush ?

there are the chiappa and puma mares leg rifles available in Canada, not that anyone really seems to know about them..

 

[canuckgunny]

The main thing I find curious is more guns are sold for wilderness defence to people that live in Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, GTA than all the north combined.

You're probably right... but if you consider there's probably a thousand times more people in those few cities alone than most of the north combined, the numbers game gets a little interesting. Percentage-wise, wildlife defence guns, (or whatever people want to call them) are probably way higher in the north- just as one would expect.
I live in 'bear country'... at least the signs around here say so- but I personally haven't had any run ins. I probably never will. And if I did, chances are pretty good that the only shot I'd get off was with my Nikon... of its ass running away from me. All the same, how many folks have -100C rated boots and have no intention of going to the south pole, or 4WD and never have left a highway for anything worse than a gravel road. Still pretty handy tools to have under the right circumstances....
I know mine ain't for bears

 

[Foxer]

Up north, people generally carry sensible choices where the threat is real

Oh please. What a crock of crap that is.

First off - there's been just as many bear attacks 'down south' as there is 'up north'. Gal in coqutlam got her ass bit while tending the garden a year ago. Lots of people have had lots of run ins around squamish, whistler, hope, etc etc.

So if you're trying to pretend bears only live in the north, you don't know much about bears. And surprise surprise - we have these things called 'cars' now that let us actually leave the city and spend time in the woods. And i'm not even talking about those who hunt.

Yeash. What a comment.

I think the most well armed guy you'll ever find in the bush is an urbanite with a gun fetish who goes out 3 weeks a year!

Yea -because guides never wore handguns till they were taken away right? And you'd never catch anyone in alaska wearing a handgun, right?

You sound like a CFO.

An old trapper I met outside of Fort Nelson a couple hours, air access only in prime grizzly country, didn't have anything but a .22 Mag revolver as I understood it.

Yeah - no old guides have ever bothered to carry a gun. You're quite right.

I carry, and I'm not against it,

Yeah. We can tell.

lots of people choose not to carry any defensive tools. Lots of people get bit or attacked each year too. Doesn't mean i want to be one. Lots of people say we shouldn't be able to use guns for self defense in the home either. I don't really agree with them.

I'd carry a revolver if i could, but i can't. There are times and places where i may not carry at all or stick with spray, but there are lots of times and places I would like to have a gun with me without having to shoulder it (cleaning a moose in griz country comes to mind).

And seriously. If you think guides, trappers and other people who spend lots of time in the woods havne't been carrying guns for ages, you're sadly mistaken. Not all do, and that's fine. But it's hardly an 'urban phenomenon'.

 

[carverk]

The only way a mares leg can be a sensible firearm is to put a full but stock on it.
As for grizzly defense there is of course better options.
Most of the time you can calmly talk down a bear!
But then again there is a time for talking and a time for shooting!
I like that idea of a 4 1/2 pound rifle and six rounds just in case.
Especially when you have a load of rock samples to pack out.
When I am drilling it is nice knowing you have a firearm handy.
The oil and hydraulic fluids we use is like candy for bears!

 

[Edward Teach]

I like that it's a small package and could easily be stowed in a backpack or day-pack. So one might be more inclined to take it along when they would otherwise leave a long-arm behind, because carrying one would be awkward. All the reasons why I'd like to be able to pack a handgun in the bush, if there wasn't so much stupidity and red tape associated with it.

 

[driller212]

The only way a mares leg can be a sensible firearm is to put a full but stock on it.

I think really the full stock issue is a matter of opinon, but I wont have a real opinion until I get my hands on it.

If you can aim a pistol with two hands just fine and be hitting a target at 100 yrds + then I dont see a problem using a small rifle if it holds as steady as a handgun. I find handguns are much more accurate than people think, you just need to shoot them properly to get the accuracy out of them. not that I am any expert this is all just my opinion, but after getting taught how to shoot properly by a USPSA competitor (which of course I enjoy bragging about ) it improved my shooting skills drastically. Just a bit of background so you see where I am coming from here.