UPDATE: Rossi Ranch Hand Mares Leg

You missed the point of just about everything I said. I'm attacking the mare's leg, and other fetish guns, not carrying in general as I carry. I'm saying you'll see 8" 870's, and mare's legs in the hands of those who deal with bears less, and I'm rock solid confident on that statement. In fact, the folks we deal with that truly get in bear's faces carry bear spray and a 12 gauge or .30-30, .375 short rifle, etc, and the bear spray gets used first and out of no concern for the bear's life, it just works best. It is not however permanent, and that's why I have my .375 and .475 in addition to spray.

The kodiak charge in the river in Alaska vid's famous, and the muzzle report worked. I've also seen bears literally just twitch and hunker when warning shots are fired, and act like a dumb dog confused at what that was, without walking an inch. But this has turned into what I'm not saying; I agree a gun's a damn good idea, I do not agree a mare's leg is everything it's being pumped up to be in this thread from what I found with them. I chuckled at where the majority of interest seemed to be centered. I'm making light of the fact the more "colourful" guns out there seem to collect around the urban areas.

Trappers? My head office boss has a trapline, and a good friend as well and I was just putting marten on boards in the skinning skack with him yesterday, he's also a bison and moose guide. I do believe I'm more familiar with guys that spend a lot of time in the bush than the people I'm mocking, if you feel not, my apologies. Forgive me for displaying curiosity and questioning the mare's leg in a wilderness defence role, it's a touchy subject it seems. I wouldn't get too excited about trimming 8" off a stock and thinking that's going to change the world in handling and ease of use, cutting your accuracy down by at least half, likely far more, in the process. Feel free to rip into me for questioning things on that count too. I also said I'd buy one to play with, but that's the extent of it; fun. As a tool, wait til you shoot one...



Foxer said:
Oh please. What a crock of crap that is.

First off - there's been just as many bear attacks 'down south' as there is 'up north'. Gal in coqutlam got her ass bit while tending the garden a year ago. Lots of people have had lots of run ins around squamish, whistler, hope, etc etc.

So if you're trying to pretend bears only live in the north, you don't know much about bears. And surprise surprise - we have these things called 'cars' now that let us actually leave the city and spend time in the woods. And i'm not even talking about those who hunt.

Yeash. What a comment.



Yea -because guides never wore handguns till they were taken away right? And you'd never catch anyone in alaska wearing a handgun, right?

You sound like a CFO.



Yeah - no old guides have ever bothered to carry a gun. You're quite right. :rolleyes::rolleyes:




Yeah. We can tell.

lots of people choose not to carry any defensive tools. Lots of people get bit or attacked each year too. Doesn't mean i want to be one. Lots of people say we shouldn't be able to use guns for self defense in the home either. I don't really agree with them.

I'd carry a revolver if i could, but i can't. There are times and places where i may not carry at all or stick with spray, but there are lots of times and places I would like to have a gun with me without having to shoulder it (cleaning a moose in griz country comes to mind).

And seriously. If you think guides, trappers and other people who spend lots of time in the woods havne't been carrying guns for ages, you're sadly mistaken. Not all do, and that's fine. But it's hardly an 'urban phenomenon'.
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Ardent said:
You missed the point of just about everything I said. I'm attacking the mare's leg, and other fetish guns, not carrying in general as I carry. I'm saying you'll see 8" 870's, and mare's legs in the hands of those who deal with bears less, and I'm rock solid confident on that statement. In fact, the folks we deal with that truly get in bear's faces carry bear spray and a 12 gauge or .30-30, .375 short rifle, etc, and the bear spray gets used first and out of no concern for the bear's life, it just works best. It is not however permanent, and that's why I have my .375 and .475 in addition to spray.

The kodiak charge in the river in Alaska vid's famous, and the muzzle report worked. I've also seen bears literally just twitch and hunker when warning shots are fired, and act like a dumb dog confused at what that was, without walking an inch. But this has turned into what I'm not saying; I agree a gun's a damn good idea, I do not agree a mare's leg is everything it's being pumped up to be in this thread from what I found with them. I chuckled at where the majority of interest seemed to be centered. I'm making light of the fact the more "colourful" guns out there seem to collect around the urban areas.

Trappers? My head office boss has a trapline, and a good friend as well and I was just putting marten on boards in the skinning skack with him yesterday, he's also a bison and moose guide. I do believe I'm more familiar with guys that spend a lot of time in the bush than the people I'm mocking, if you feel not, my apologies. Forgive me for displaying curiosity and questioning the mare's leg in a wilderness defence role, it's a touchy subject it seems. I wouldn't get too excited about trimming 8" off a stock and thinking that's going to change the world in handling and ease of use, cutting your accuracy down by at least half, likely far more, in the process. Feel free to rip into me for questioning things on that count too. I also said I'd buy one to play with, but that's the extent of it; fun. As a tool, wait til you shoot one...
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you are totally entitled to your opinion of course, but I do disagree with most of what you have said. I dont really think anyone is an "expert" at dealing with bear defense firearms, but any firearm is better than no firearm. and when it comes to beating through the bush, there is no way I am carrying around a great big long rifle that will catch on everything and weigh more than it needs to.

we could go on forever debating (more like arguing really haha), lets all just agree to disagree and get on with our lives.

I think we can all agree the mares leg will be a fun little rifle to shoot, and a good conversation piece with shooting buddies.
 
driller212 said:
you are totally entitled to your opinion of course, but I do disagree with most of what you have said. I dont really think anyone is an "expert" at dealing with bear defense firearms, but any firearm is better than no firearm. and when it comes to beating through the bush, there is no way I am carrying around a great big long rifle that will catch on everything and weigh more than it needs to.

we could go on forever debating (more like arguing really haha), lets all just agree to disagree and get on with our lives.

I think we can all agree the mares leg will be a fun little rifle to shoot, and a good conversation piece with shooting buddies.
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Fair enough, agreed on most counts, and agree to disagree. With a stock fitted, this should be a kick butt little gun, where we seem to differ in on the size of the plank on the back and what it means for the gun's utiility. Pretty simple spread of opinion, really, so you're right. :)
 
I'm attacking the mare's leg, and other fetish guns, not carrying in general as I carry.
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and this is based on your extensive experience with the mare's leg is it?

I'm saying you'll see 8" 870's, and mare's legs in the hands of those who deal with bears less, and I'm rock solid confident on that statement.
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Really. No one in the north bought 8 inch grizzlies. Gotta tell you - that's not accurate.

Of course, 8 inch pumps have been here for a very short time. But i know LOTS of guys who live and work in the north who favored a very short barreled single shot.

In fact, the folks we deal with that truly get in bear's faces carry bear spray and a 12 gauge or .30-30, .375 short rifle, etc, and the bear spray gets used first and out of no concern for the bear's life, it just works best. It is not however permanent, and that's why I have my .375 and .475 in addition to spray.
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Given a choice i'll take a full rifle over a pistol or a mare's leg any day.

But there are times you just don't carry a rifle around. Hence something more compact. Pistol would be perfect, but we can't have 'em.

I agree a gun's a damn good idea, I do not agree a mare's leg is everything it's being pumped up to be in this thread from what I found with them.
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I haven't seen anyone 'pump it up'. Which post says they're the best bear defense gun? Who's been 'pumping' it as something extrodinary?

Fun to shoot maybe and kind of cool perhaps. But i don't see threads claiming this would be the best tool you could possibly have for bear defense, just that it's A tool you could have.

Methinks you doth protest too much sir.

Forgive me for displaying curiosity and questioning the mare's leg in a wilderness defence role, it's a touchy subject it seems.
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Dude, you made an arrogant and condescending post, not an 'inquiry into it's wilderness defense role'.

You could have been talking about peanut butter and people would still react badly if you talked the way you did.

As to why i'm 'excited' - it's a new gun. That's really all the reason i need. I was really excited about my last gun purchase too, and the one before etc etc. This one we have to wait for, so we're enjoying talking about it and the like, but if you can't understand why someone might be excited about a new gun, you've lost something in your heart.

It may very well be that after playing with it for a few months i stick a full stock on it and use it like that. It may be that it turns out i can shoot it pretty well as is.

But seriously - your post was way out of line. Talking about the pro's and cons is one thing but keep the sanctimonious attitude to yourself. I doubt very much a bear would enjoy getting hit by a bullet from a mare's leg, and i have little doubt that at the kind of ranges i'd shoot a charging bear at that i'll be better off with a mare's leg than I would be with nothing.

Personally - if the bear gives me enough notice i'll likely prefer a 45-70 :) but - i'd rather have this with me than a 45-70 at home.
 
Ardent said:
The main thing I find curious is more guns are sold for wilderness defence to people that live in Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, GTA than all the north combined. Up north, people generally carry sensible choices where the threat is real (I don't forsee encountering many guys on the territories border Alberta with mare's legs in the bush). I think the most well armed guy you'll ever find in the bush is an urbanite with a gun fetish who goes out 3 weeks a year! An old trapper I met outside of Fort Nelson a couple hours, air access only in prime grizzly country, didn't have anything but a .22 Mag revolver as I understood it. He'd been there at least 20 years too. I carry, and I'm not against it, it's just a curious dispersal of guns of this type... mare's legs (to be), 8" 870's, etc etc... they're utterly almost entirely urban in their distribution. Up north you will see 12 and 14" 870's, .30-30's, .375 H&H bolt guns, revolvers .44 Mag and greater, but this thing... I doubt it.
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People that don't have a lot of experience growing up around bears have more fear then respect for them....

As far as the Mare's leg concept.

It's a hollywood design and not based on practical use... the fact that it attracts buyers do to it's image more then it's practicality is easy to understand and good for the gun industry. Different strokes for different folks and all..... Sure Canadian Gunnutz will talk about them for wilderness defense because they are the lightest non restricted repeating guns we have access to.....they also come in good short range defense calibers.

Like many guns this gun is not perfect out of the box....but with a few modifications they will be great bush camping guns!

This discussion is starting to sound like a PGO shotgun thread.....:eek:
 
Can-down said:
People that don't have a lot of experience growing up around bears have more fear then respect for them....

As far as the Mare's leg concept.

It's a hollywood design and not based on practical use... the fact that it attracts buyers do to it's image more then it's practicality is easy to understand and good for the gun industry. Different strokes for different folks and all..... Sure Canadian Gunnutz will talk about them for wilderness defense because they are the lightest non restricted repeating guns we have access to.....they also come in good short range defense calibers.

Like many guns this gun is not perfect out of the box....but with a few modifications they will be great bush camping guns!

This discussion is starting to sound like a PGO shotgun thread.....:eek:
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Thanks for a good post that I can nod at, as for Foxer's above, he can remain pissed at me and chapped/hurt, my opinions stand and are founded in reality. Foxer, I don't speak out of my arse here. I've tried a mare's leg, I've hunted dangerous game, and I work and live in the north where we have a good few animals. I mean what I say, and can only smile at hurt feelings, I do feel bad you're offended but I'm only offering some light on things a few may not think about. I too have said, likely a few times now, I'd play with one so I judge nobody who wants one for fun. As for who's pumping up the mare's leg for bear defence, if you can't find that in the thread, I can't help you.
 
he can remain pissed at me and chapped/hurt, my opinions stand and are founded in reality.
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Riiight. Whatever.

Tell you what. Seeing as you don't like these guns why don't you go elsewhere and play?

The problem isn't really what you think about guns. It's your piss poor arrogant attitude which really tells me that your opinion isn't worth much in the first place. Like i said - you could talk about peanut butter that way and people would still be offended.
 
There is nothing wrong with wanting a mares leg for any reason.
It does not matter what firearm or caliber there will always be somebody criticizing your decisions(the hell with them it's your money)
if you want mares leg for a option for a handgun why not.
I am not a very good shot with a handgun and I have never totally comfortable with the shotgun.
But that is me and I do not have a right to lecture anybody about what they choose to pack or hunt with.
As firearm owners we are supposed to support each other and conduct ourselves as responsible adults!
 
I'm afraid you would be offended, but we can experiment and try talking about peanut butter one day if you like. Things really do change, I think I was supposed to meet you and go bear hunting on the coast 5 mere years ago? Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else, but pretty sure you were looking to black bear hunt for the first time around then. I'm glad we never arranged a date I should think.
 
carverk said:
There is nothing wrong with wanting a mares leg for any reason.
It does not matter what firearm or caliber there will always be somebody criticizing your decisions(the hell with them it's your money)
if you want mares leg for a option for a handgun why not.
I am not a very good shot with a handgun and I have never totally comfortable with the shotgun.
But that is me and I do not have a right to lecture anybody about what they choose to pack or hunt with.
As firearm owners we are supposed to support each other and conduct ourselves as responsible adults!
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I agree, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out limitations either. driller, I wouldn't worry about it being closed down, there will be no piss and vinegar on this side you have my word. :)
 
Aye carumba guys.

If this thing shoots half as well as my .44mag revolver and is small enough to be handy (and big enough to be non-restricted)... it's gonna live up to my expectations.

Now I've never shot one of these, but I've shot plenty of .44 in a revolver. I'm not the best pistol man on the planet, but I can pound a 6" gong all day at 50 yards and beyond (well beyond most days with a little extra care) but the damn gun is always stuck at home in the safe when I'm anywhere but the range. A bad shot with a mare's has to be better than the one I'll not make with the revolver.

Its a cute little curio to boot. Quit #####ing.
 
short rifles

Having spent my youth in the swan hills,some of my adult life in LE, thus having access to historical data, I will say with authority that the canadian bushman, has cut down just about every rifle made by man, One uncle was deadly with a .303 pistol shooting offhand 2 mags butt welded together. We won't even get into the cut down arsenal of the bad guys. Using some of my carbine loads .45 LC 300gr fp/22.5 gr h-110, I beleive this is enough gun for any one.
 
Ardent - to answer the debate on why most of the urban buyers want the mares leg for bear defense, I give you this:



demotivational_posters_16.jpg
 
I quit a job once when I was working in the backend of work channel it took five days to walk out just to prove a point.
Between the rivers and glaciers nobody believes anyone can do it but I proved them wrong.
I would have been grateful to have a mares leg especially when I would come to an entrance of a grizzly bear den.
This was in the spring time as the grizzlies were just coming out of hibernation!
Those who have encountered the dens know how dangerous position a person is in jurring this time of year and having any firearm would have been in my best interests.
Not to mention the stink that is one horrible smell I never want to encounter again.
Long story short I came out in the Nass Valley and had to listen to everyone Lecturing me pulling off such a dangerous stunt just to make my point.
Take it from someone who knows the Bush any lightweight firearm is appreciated when there is no trail or road to walk on.
I know some geologists that are going to love the mares lag
 
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H Wally said:
Ardent - to answer the debate on why most of the urban buyers want the mares leg for bear defense, I give you this:



demotivational_posters_16.jpg
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Oh come off it you guys, any reasonable person who looks at the picture can see that's just a bear in an enclosure at a big city zoo.


......obviously just another city slicker trying his damndest to get his mitts on a Mare's Leg :p
 
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Being a helicopter pilot does not make you a bushman.
Being a Hunter does not make you a bushman.
Being a hicker does not make you a bushman.
Being a bushman takes time in the Bush sorry to say I have only met a handful in my lifetime.
Get your head out of the clouds and leave the guy alone
 
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