hityad
New member
- Location
- Nova Scotia
UPS playing games now with gun/ammo shipments
- Thread starter CanAm
- Start date
Biologist
Regular
- Location
- NW Ontario
I don't understand the theory that these companies are compelled to leave packages at the door, with liability? I don't buy it.
These companies could easily do what Canada Post does, which is if you are not home to sign, then leave a paper notice in the mailbox. The customer has to go to the depot to sign for and pick it up.
Yes I know that is extra package handling for the company. Too bad, boo hoo. Its not an excuse to discriminate. We need legislation that prevents these companies from discriminating against citizens conducting legal shipping and commerce. They can adjust their business model voluntarily to comply with the law, or they will be convicted of discrimination crimes and fined until such time as they fix their behaviour.
If they want to be a licensed courier company in a free country with legal gun owners and gun businesses, then they can bloody well obey the law. We need that legislation change. We cannot have courier companies picking and choosing what they deliver and what they don't based on politics or ideology.
Yes I know that for rural residents it is especially a pain in the neck to have to drive to the depot. But this is how we can ensure these companies have no excuse for discrimination. The law could stipulate that these companies must have depot evening hours and Saturday hours, in order to comply with their courier license and not discriminate against rural residents and working Canadians who work 9-5 or commute long distances.
We need some case law where these companies are convicted of discrimination for refusing to deliver goods and services, with fines big enough to change their behaviour. If this happens we won't have a problem.
These companies could easily do what Canada Post does, which is if you are not home to sign, then leave a paper notice in the mailbox. The customer has to go to the depot to sign for and pick it up.
Yes I know that is extra package handling for the company. Too bad, boo hoo. Its not an excuse to discriminate. We need legislation that prevents these companies from discriminating against citizens conducting legal shipping and commerce. They can adjust their business model voluntarily to comply with the law, or they will be convicted of discrimination crimes and fined until such time as they fix their behaviour.
If they want to be a licensed courier company in a free country with legal gun owners and gun businesses, then they can bloody well obey the law. We need that legislation change. We cannot have courier companies picking and choosing what they deliver and what they don't based on politics or ideology.
Yes I know that for rural residents it is especially a pain in the neck to have to drive to the depot. But this is how we can ensure these companies have no excuse for discrimination. The law could stipulate that these companies must have depot evening hours and Saturday hours, in order to comply with their courier license and not discriminate against rural residents and working Canadians who work 9-5 or commute long distances.
We need some case law where these companies are convicted of discrimination for refusing to deliver goods and services, with fines big enough to change their behaviour. If this happens we won't have a problem.
If you think any one group is innocent of killing civilians, I would strongly suggest you do some digging on our/our neighbors Military's antics in the last 40 years. Drone strike alone account for a lot more damage to civs on both sides.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
They're too much in a rush. Like the UPS delivery guy yesterday. I put a snap link on the gate latch, which is on the inside and a pin thru my gate, so people would not enter. Had a earlier solicitor do the same thing but knock on a open screen door. Then yell at my dogs. Easier to control dogs with a double door, than one door. But the UPS guy, I watched for a good 15 seconds try and fiddle with the snap link, then when it wouldn't open ( because the pin ) climb over it. When there was a door 15feet away.
There is no close pickup for UPS and Fedex here. I would have to drive an hour.
Big JD-From the hills
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan.
Makes you wonder what kinda back room deals the liberals are making with these companies???? We are living in times where truth, integrity, and transparency has never been so undervalued, yet easy to achieve and expose. The police state that quebec has allowed itself to become(with the curfews ect) and yet major fraud and charter violations by government and law enforcement going unchecked???? It's going to be a no lives matter country soon enough.
hityad
New member
- Location
- Nova Scotia
When was the last time where two wrongs made one right?
So your original point is what then?
btabin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley
Whataboutism isn't a good response to the leader of your preferred party supporting a terrorist organization.
stevelarry
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver
These companies don't have hubs like Canada post does at every Safeway etc.
They also have the free choice to not ship XYZ the same way Mc.Donalds doesn't have to make steak and lobsters because you want it. The reason? I have no idea, but they are free to make that choice. Weird concept I know, but private companies can run how they see fit. Funny how we want less govt involvement in private citizens and businesses until you can't get your gun in the mail. Then all of a sudden we want legislation telling private companies how to operate LOL.
Some Airlines don't fly to certain places, that's also not discriminating. Canada Post won't ship me a 1987 Toyota Hilux by container from Japan either.
The juice prob isn't worth the squeeze for these companies and they are dropping a service. Not enough money, too much headache, external pressures etc.
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capitalism and capitalist is interested in making a profit .. if it's profitable - it will be done ...
so, if shipping ammo and everything else is profitable, capitalism will move it with enthusiasm .. until f^%&g lefties (communists, socialists, fascists) come and interfere ...
you are talking about political interferences and distortions to capitalism by the LEFT (from communists to socialists to fascists) - social responsibilities of business and corporations and all other lefty trash talk ..
social responsibilities are charities' and partially a state's duties, business is to follow safety rules and honest competition rules while making a profit, that's it ...
and charge for its product as much as its consumer agrees to pay ...
if average consumer sees price as too high, she will stop buying and goods will not be sold and there will be no profit ...
the same with salaries - business to pay the least amount the work force will agree to participate in it ..
paying more - business will be losing to competition (domestic or foreign) and cease to function, paying less - work force will leave and business cease to function also ...
seems like people are talking about socialism/capitalism while never even having opened anything written by left's own gods - Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky ..
Except it has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with cost of business. Post pandemic, there is no longer a signature at the door, add in the cost of having more staff at distribution centers that may or may not be equipped for face to face with customers. A business will try to run itself in a way which maximizes profits and minimizes risk to the company. Moving controlled and regulated items such as guns and explosives, has a much higher cost than moving t shirts and electronics.
If it eats your profit (Which the added insurance, handling and risk does), then it will eventually be dropped. Ammo cant be shipped VIA air, nor can any other explosive or compressed gas, so there goes the ability to make profit on those packages by now having to utilize ground services which cost a very large chunk more to move something a long distance.
Your idiocy is wonderfully illustrated by failing to understand the sunk cost/future cost fallacy. By taking those items, they are costing themselves money to conduct a service gesture more or less, as they don't make a large enough profit if any, by shipping ammo. Ultimately opening themselves to various liability due to current delivery standards that are once again being utilized to maximize profits and minimize risk to workers.
I've done my fair share of reading and understanding of the "lefts" gods as well as the folks that are revered in the business world. It doesn't take a smart person to understand that businesses don't like to lose money and that this community/sport does exactly that to the courier business model.
you just confirm what I said ... if it costs more - they will charge more until the "price" will be capped either politically (e.g., regulatory burdens) or
consumers will refuse to use their service seeing the as to highly priced...
their solution to both - to withdraw from unprofitable segment ...
the market they function in is distorted by the state, her ideology and interference ... and it's not capitalists' fault ..
NOTE: I didn't degrade myself calling you names. It says a lot about who I am dealing with. So, paraphrasing the Bible, I stop cast pearls in front of ...
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Reid199
CGN Regular
- Location
- Northern Ontario
Get one high profile pro hunting native person to speak out and then all these leftists companies will Immediately fold on the issue.
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No sale. It generates over a.billion in revenue for.the feds. Who hands a billion $ out voluntarily. Crown corporations are nothing more than a paperwork/legal term to protect the government.from liability and insulate politicians from backlash when legislating against unions.
PinkyPlinker
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kenora, ON
Are you seriously advocating support of the deliberate downing of a civilian passenger plane is ok because “US drone strikes”??
Get f@cked.
btabin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley
Not to mention drone strikes weren't a thing in 1985.
Biologist
Regular
- Location
- NW Ontario
Private companies cannot under federal and provincial law "do whatever they like". I don't know where people get this idea. Its not true in any free western democracy, and certainly not true in Canada. There are mountains of legislation and regulations and policies that regulate human affairs.
I had a career as a gov't public servant regulating the activities of private companies with numerous Legislation, Regulations, Policies, and Guidelines. Less of this regulatory stuff is preferable of course, but in a dog-eat-dog world, chaos would erupt without reasonable regulation of human activities, especially around natural resource access and consumption, and public safety, and sustainability. I love freedom and my rights, and I want more rights and freedoms, but with millions of people in a finite space and finite resources, its all a balance of interests, fairness, tradeoffs and compromise.
Private companies that provide a service (e.g. courier) cannot discriminate against law abiding people by choosing not to provide service. The "grounds" of discrimination are detailed, legally complex and evolving, so case law is setting new precedents all the time. There are provincial human rights codes laws, and federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms laws. I am not qualified in any legal knowledge in this matter so I have to throw it out to the lawyers and legal experts in discrimination law and policy to interpret and provide leadership. Lawyers and legal beagles - we need you to provide leadership.
"Creed" is one of the prohibited grounds of discrimination, well tested in case law at provincial and federal levels. (Creed BTW is not "Religion" which is a separate "grounds", although it can be related). Refusing service based on a customer's Creed is against the law, unless it can be proven that it conflicts with another law or strong policy. Company ideology is not a defense. It is Creed as a grounds for discrimination that I think a case could be won in court for discrimination against gun owners and gun shops who want to legally ship legal merchandise that has been shipping in Canada since Confederation and before. The history of a practice does carry weight in decisions about heritage, culture and Creed. The shipper cannot deny service just because they are anti-gun or have some ideology against it.
I think a legal case could be made that hunters and sports shooters value shooting as part of their lifestyle and as part of their very being down to the core, i.e. its part of our Creed. It is much deeper than "just a sport". Hunting rights using firearms has already been well tested in court for Indigenous hunters as an essential part of life, i.e. Creed. Its just as important for me and most folks on CGN. My ancestors all hunted, and target shooting is part of building hunting competency. Target shooting has been an organized sport since before Canada was born, and throughout Canada's entire history.
There are also human rights case law that I know next to nothing about, but there is a relationship in firearms and ammo ownership that is directly linked to the #1 human right which is the right of all persons to self defense. I think a case could be made that the State cannot deny the rights of Canadians to own the tools and ammunition of our ancestors to defend ourselves today. That would be crazy. The State cannot reduce our self-defense abilities by making us use knives or swords or spears or bows to defend ourselves. Therefore courier companies cannot deny firearms and ammo shipping service by practicing discrimination.
As to this hazardous goods argument, I don't buy it. Like I said in an above post, hazardous goods are being transported every second of every day across this great country, and every vehicle gas tank is a flammable/toxic/explosive on wheels, rail or in flight. Vehicles also kill and injure people, etc. The hazardous goods argument is bogus.
I had a career as a gov't public servant regulating the activities of private companies with numerous Legislation, Regulations, Policies, and Guidelines. Less of this regulatory stuff is preferable of course, but in a dog-eat-dog world, chaos would erupt without reasonable regulation of human activities, especially around natural resource access and consumption, and public safety, and sustainability. I love freedom and my rights, and I want more rights and freedoms, but with millions of people in a finite space and finite resources, its all a balance of interests, fairness, tradeoffs and compromise.
Private companies that provide a service (e.g. courier) cannot discriminate against law abiding people by choosing not to provide service. The "grounds" of discrimination are detailed, legally complex and evolving, so case law is setting new precedents all the time. There are provincial human rights codes laws, and federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms laws. I am not qualified in any legal knowledge in this matter so I have to throw it out to the lawyers and legal experts in discrimination law and policy to interpret and provide leadership. Lawyers and legal beagles - we need you to provide leadership.
"Creed" is one of the prohibited grounds of discrimination, well tested in case law at provincial and federal levels. (Creed BTW is not "Religion" which is a separate "grounds", although it can be related). Refusing service based on a customer's Creed is against the law, unless it can be proven that it conflicts with another law or strong policy. Company ideology is not a defense. It is Creed as a grounds for discrimination that I think a case could be won in court for discrimination against gun owners and gun shops who want to legally ship legal merchandise that has been shipping in Canada since Confederation and before. The history of a practice does carry weight in decisions about heritage, culture and Creed. The shipper cannot deny service just because they are anti-gun or have some ideology against it.
I think a legal case could be made that hunters and sports shooters value shooting as part of their lifestyle and as part of their very being down to the core, i.e. its part of our Creed. It is much deeper than "just a sport". Hunting rights using firearms has already been well tested in court for Indigenous hunters as an essential part of life, i.e. Creed. Its just as important for me and most folks on CGN. My ancestors all hunted, and target shooting is part of building hunting competency. Target shooting has been an organized sport since before Canada was born, and throughout Canada's entire history.
There are also human rights case law that I know next to nothing about, but there is a relationship in firearms and ammo ownership that is directly linked to the #1 human right which is the right of all persons to self defense. I think a case could be made that the State cannot deny the rights of Canadians to own the tools and ammunition of our ancestors to defend ourselves today. That would be crazy. The State cannot reduce our self-defense abilities by making us use knives or swords or spears or bows to defend ourselves. Therefore courier companies cannot deny firearms and ammo shipping service by practicing discrimination.
As to this hazardous goods argument, I don't buy it. Like I said in an above post, hazardous goods are being transported every second of every day across this great country, and every vehicle gas tank is a flammable/toxic/explosive on wheels, rail or in flight. Vehicles also kill and injure people, etc. The hazardous goods argument is bogus.
Well... I mean not to derail the thread or anything, but the US throughout modern history has supported a series of very nasty tyrants. Not that I'm advocating any killing of anyone is good/bad/evil/less evil/whatever, but the US supported many regimes that killed their citizens for no good reason throughout the post-war 20th century. Iran, Chile, Guatemala, anywhere in Central/South America for that matter. My favourite is the Argentine military -- they'd kidnap union activists from their homes, put them in a plane, then throw them out in the middle of the night over the ocean. Some real gems those guys.
btabin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley
Pretty weird way of agreeing that drone strikes didn't exist at the time of the Air India bombing.
