US Army May Field More Powerful Sniper Rifle
- Thread starter Sir Isaac Brock
- Start date
lol
Oh, you are right! I totally forgot all about that...for the SEALs in the 1980's...with some then cutting-edge precision rifles too, totally free floated, no handguards, with a tuner underneath. There was a similar rifle in .50bmg as well.
If .338's and .50's aren't allowed to be used on humans, then someone forgot to tell the British Army, Canadian Army, French Army, American Army Marines Navy...
...and the RCMP. Yep, the RCMP has .50cal sniper rifles, at least that's what I've heard from two different uniformed RCMP officers. I don't imagine Police are in the habit of needing to destroy radar dishes from long range...so that leaves extremists and criminals.
...and the RCMP. Yep, the RCMP has .50cal sniper rifles, at least that's what I've heard from two different uniformed RCMP officers. I don't imagine Police are in the habit of needing to destroy radar dishes from long range...so that leaves extremists and criminals.
- Location
- big sky country
The Edmonton TAC team even has .50s.
The US Army adopted the 300Win Mag as an upgrade from long action 308Win to total refit to 300Win Mag. This was done following US Navy Seal extremely successful deployment of 300Win Mag Mk 13 Mod 0/1/2. The cartridge used is a Federal ammo 220 SMK at 2850fps and is considered as effective as a 0.338 250 SMK.
It's an interim solution to increase sniper effective range from 800m to 1200m while using a proven, cost-effective solution. One of the many lessons of Afganistan is that weapon weight, range, mobility and maneuvrability is crucial in combat and that troops would rather carry a 50 pound anti-tank/anti-bunker missile that a huge .50 sniper rifle on patrol.
As for the legality of using large caliber weapons in anti-personel role, different army have different viewpoint depending on the treaties the have signed and their historic experience. The British Army is againt using open tip ammo for general use while the US Army bought 8 millions rounds of Trophy Bound Tip ammo...
We only need one good international treaty lawyer and one good forensic doctor to find out what is legal and what is illegal,
Alex
It's an interim solution to increase sniper effective range from 800m to 1200m while using a proven, cost-effective solution. One of the many lessons of Afganistan is that weapon weight, range, mobility and maneuvrability is crucial in combat and that troops would rather carry a 50 pound anti-tank/anti-bunker missile that a huge .50 sniper rifle on patrol.
As for the legality of using large caliber weapons in anti-personel role, different army have different viewpoint depending on the treaties the have signed and their historic experience. The British Army is againt using open tip ammo for general use while the US Army bought 8 millions rounds of Trophy Bound Tip ammo...
We only need one good international treaty lawyer and one good forensic doctor to find out what is legal and what is illegal,
Alex
well, back in 84 or so, ss109 ammo was CONSIDERED as effective as m80 ball,in that it could penetrate an m1 helmet out to 800 yards- we all know that turned out- in other words, you may consider the words "considered as effective" as BALONEY
The .300 Win Mag does not match the Lapua .338LM in any way.
The Lapua .300 LM is superior to the Win., although not manufactured, as most Western countries use .338LM.
Regards,
Hirsch Precision
DND contractor
The Lapua .300 LM is superior to the Win., although not manufactured, as most Western countries use .338LM.
Regards,
Hirsch Precision
DND contractor
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
.300 winmag is nice, its a good hunting round for the realy big game, as a military round not so much. there realy isn't a need for a bridging round between .308 and the .338 / 50.cal. When your buying in bulk and having to train guys on new platforms; having a riffle thats to big for the marksmen and to small for the snipers doesn't make a lot of sense.
Canadian forces train with .50 cal for use against personal. There is no international law against using a .50 cal against personal. The geneva convention Article 35 bans weapons that "cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering," as well as means of warfare that "cause widespread, long-term, and severe damage to the natural environment."
AKA: weponized white phosphrus , mustard gas, hallow points etc.
Canadian forces train with .50 cal for use against personal. There is no international law against using a .50 cal against personal. The geneva convention Article 35 bans weapons that "cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering," as well as means of warfare that "cause widespread, long-term, and severe damage to the natural environment."
AKA: weponized white phosphrus , mustard gas, hallow points etc.
I read years ago that the reason the US Army uses long action sniper rifles even tho only using 7.62 NATO is that they planned to re-barrel them at some point to .300 WM.
Might want to read Triggermen, plenty of stories from Iraq (urban sniping) where they used the Barret frequently on insurgents. If distance, shooting through barriers, vehicles were involved they used the Barret. Interestingly they found the tracers to be more accurate than the ball rounds.
Another interesting side note, after they lost an entire sniper team rear guard security measures were implemented. Chained up doors and entries all bobby trapped with Claymores. One team was surrounded while holed up in an abandoned apartment, they were tossing blocks of C4 with fuses cut down to 8 seconds into the back alley to keep the bad guys at bay.
Great read.
Another interesting side note, after they lost an entire sniper team rear guard security measures were implemented. Chained up doors and entries all bobby trapped with Claymores. One team was surrounded while holed up in an abandoned apartment, they were tossing blocks of C4 with fuses cut down to 8 seconds into the back alley to keep the bad guys at bay.
Great read.
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
Why is the US military so anti .338LM? Seems to be the logical fit for such a role, many other NATO countries are already fielding it. Why stick with the .300WM, seems to be a waste project to only get a few hundred more meters out of a .308. Use the .338LM, perfect for the role.
The M24 was conceived with this conversion in mind. The 300 Win is already a US Military "approved" round. Both of these things make it attractive to those that write specifications and proposals however it does nothing to address its inferiority to the 338...
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Lapua was created by Finland (so to speak) and not the US. So they choose not to "officially" recognize it.
Even though some US special forces units use the caliber. Or so the articles have suggested.
Even though some US special forces units use the caliber. Or so the articles have suggested.
Created by the Finns at the request of the U.S. Navy. Seems odd to deny it a few decades later. - dan
