Using the slide stop to drop the slide on an empty chamber (IPSC Global Village)
- Thread starter Wendell
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CanuckShooter
CGN frequent flyer
That's hotly debated. Some people have had problems with the breechface cracking whether it was caused by, or exacerbated by the impact of the striker against the breechface during dryfiring.
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I don't drop the slide as a rule. Someone said it's like slamming a car door and I think that's a great analogy... you could slam a car door a bunch of times with no damage but sooner or later things will jiggle free. Just not worth it as there's no benefit in slamming your slide forward on an empty chamber at any time.
Personally, I make it a practice not to do it on any semi-auto pistol I own, handle or shoot.
Even the Glocks....
NAA.
While that may be a good practice, is there anything about the Glock mechanics which would suggest that this is bad?
The glock being striker fired, I'm not sure slamming the slide on an empty chamber will do anything at all
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Is there then a difference between using the slide release to allow the slid to move forward on an empty chamber and racking the slide and and allowing it to drop on an empty chamber? When we clear a jam, we would partially release the magazine, rack the slide a few times to ensure the jam cleared . . . meaning that the slide slams closed on an empty chamber several times, then the magazine is pushed home and the slide racked to chamber the next round.
If you experience breakage, the nice thing about a 1911 is that the pieces can be swapped out without need of a gunsmith to complete critical fitting or disassembly. Sort of goes to prove tightening up the original 1911 internal dimensions doesn't do much to improve a fighting gun.
If you experience breakage, the nice thing about a 1911 is that the pieces can be swapped out without need of a gunsmith to complete critical fitting or disassembly. Sort of goes to prove tightening up the original 1911 internal dimensions doesn't do much to improve a fighting gun.
If you are in the habit of actually pulling the slide all the way back and then fully releasing it then no there isn't. But in a clearing situation I've never seen anyone that actually lets go of the slide and then grabs it again. That takes too long. Instead the typical method is to continue to hold it. Even if you let it return as fast as your hand can move it's not as fast as the slide actually flying forward. The sound it makes tells you this. So there's still some damping of the motion as long as you maintain your grip on the slide.
For me it all comes down to the sound. If dropping the slide on an empty chamber produces a train of sounds and a fairly muted "THUNK" at the end I'm pretty satisfied that the velocity of the slide travel is being held back by the various mechanical actions of closing well enough that there's little or no risk of damage. But 1911's seem to be in a whole other plane on this count. All the ones I've seen that closed accidentlly or on purpose on an empty chamber do so with very little, if any, intermediary sounds and with a final loud and resounding "CLACK!". To my metal working background this screams warnings of metal damage to me. So I don't do it to my own 1911 and I don't do it to anyone elses either.
And even if you're one of the folks that does it to their own I would hope that you have enough respect for others and their beliefs not to do it to one that was given to you to inspect.
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- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
You are correct that the slide should be in contact with the hand when clearing a jam, but I don't think that reduces the amount of force you apply to the slide when it closes on an empty chamber. I tend to rack the slide back and forth harder when clearing a jam than the recoil spring would when returning the slide to battery on an empty chamber. So to me, concerns over damage by releasing the slide on an empty chamber with a good quality pistol is a non-issue.
You have a 1911 that jams?
Nope,
Actually if you are properly handling/pointing a firearm then squeezing the trigger when releasing the slide is a SAFER way of releasing the slide. However, like everything, you need to TRAIN yourself to do it properly.
Yes it will make the MAJORITY of people these days will cringe, and I don't advocate that method. But you are making broad sweeping statements about what is a "crap" gun. If you consider it to be a crap gun, I suggest that YOU don't shoot it..
There are lots and lots of guns with trigger jobs, not just for IPIC but also for bullseye. The SAFEST way of releasing slides with light triggers IS to hold the trigger back.
Funny that when I was first coached/trained on tuned target pistols, many decades ago, we were taught/required to hold the trigger back as it eliminated the chance for hammer follow and an ACCIDENTAL discharge when closing the slide. Have you ever had a pistol "double" on you? It happens occasionally with tuned guns with short trigger resets.
And BTW, I HAVE had a LOT of professional training, and some of it by Olympic level coaches.
By your comments, it is obvious that you should stick with stock pistols and keeping your finger well away from the trigger.
Nope,
Actually if you are properly handling/pointing a firearm then squeezing the trigger when releasing the slide is a SAFER way of releasing the slide. However, like everything, you need to TRAIN yourself to do it properly.
Yes it will make the MAJORITY of people these days will cringe, and I don't advocate that method. But you are making broad sweeping statements about what is a "crap" gun. If you consider it to be a crap gun, I suggest that YOU don't shoot it..
There are lots and lots of guns with trigger jobs, not just for IPIC but also for bullseye. The SAFEST way of releasing slides with light triggers IS to hold the trigger back.
Funny that when I was first coached/trained on tuned target pistols, many decades ago, we were taught/required to hold the trigger back as it eliminated the chance for hammer follow and an ACCIDENTAL discharge when closing the slide. Have you ever had a pistol "double" on you? It happens occasionally with tuned guns with short trigger resets.
And BTW, I HAVE had a LOT of professional training, and some of it by Olympic level coaches.
By your comments, it is obvious that you should stick with stock pistols and keeping your finger well away from the trigger.
If your gun can't handle being cycled without being pampered, its crap. If you don't understand and follow the fundamental four rules for firearms handling, you're wrong. Bullseye shooting IMO is far from useful and rather boring. I've posted this before and I'll post it again. Modifying a service pistol or designing one that is not suitable for service defeats the intended purpose of firearms in general. You can equate "race guns" to a top fuel dragster. Sure its still a motor vehicle but its completely useless.
Finger on trigger when not firing is wrong end of story....
TDC
So you find you're able to keep your Glocks sufficiently lubed without ever disassembling them? I don't know, I still field strip mine to clean and lube them once in a while.
TDC did you make offending people your goal in life, was it an acquired trait or are have you been a jerk since birth? Enquiring minds want to know.
PPC is a sport and for those who participate it can be a chalenging, rewarding
pastime. It isn't for everybody and many who excell at Action Shooting fail miserably at PPC. So too Olympic style shootiing. Different strokes for different folks. That hardly makes the sport crap.
What makes you the expert on what handguns are designed for. A well tuned PPC gunis is designed for shooting PPC, so too an IPSC Race Gun for Open Division or a M&P Pro for IDPA SSP Division. Folks buy and set their guns up for the purposes they intend to use them for.
I know from your past posts that you only own handguns to kill people. I believe that is what you wrote. That doesn't make any handgun designed and prepared for some other endeavor useless.
Given you chances of being in that position are the other side of none, why do you bother owning any handguns at all other to live in some fantasy world featuring Arnold, Barbie and Hulk Hogan.
I can tell you for a fact a PPC, IPSC, IDPA or CAS shooter will get more use and enjoyment out of their guns then you will ever get out of yours. Not only will they get more use out of them but they will be sure, after a relatively short period of time, their equipment works for their intended purpose. You on the other hand will never know...must be frustrating as hell.
Take Care
Bob
It's interesting how some folks get so worked up about his issue. FWIW: the comments I made about dropping the slide on an empty chamber were not made in a vacuum. That is to say; I am not some middle-aged-mall-ninja-wannabe, still living in my mother's basement and getting all of my firearms knowledge out of "Guns and Ammo" magazine. I do actually have quite a few years of extensive experience both shooting and working on 1911's, and I know pretty well how the damned things work. I don't carry a gun for self defense, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid, and in fact I probably put a hell of a lot more rounds down range in any given year than most of those who do carry.
My IPSC Open Division racing gun has an 18 oz trigger pull. Yes, it's very light and I like it that way.....and I like racing guns because of what they can do in competition. I don't plan to ever use this device in a lethal encounter so for my needs it works as intended. I can shoot pretty much any pistol design with any flavor of trigger pull, but I PREFER to race with a very specific setup because it suits me. It is not a fragile setup by any means, and from time to time the slide will end up closing on an empty chamber (shooting it to empty for instance), and permitting this to occur on an occasional basis doesn't concern me. But not wanting to make a habit of slamming the slide when it is just as easy to simply close it myself is simply a case of trying to avoid tempting the Gods. Over the years, I've been bitten in competition enough times by equipment issues to know that if you abuse something enough, and use it enough, it WILL eventually fail on you at the worst possible time. So to me just not doing it is cheap, practical insurance.
And incidentally; if I was actually in a position that necessitated carrying a firearm for defensive use, I would sure as HELL not make a habit of slamming the slide on an empty chamber. Unlike the frivolous world of competition, a tool that you are betting your life on, or those of others, is the one gun that it would really matter a lot if it screwed up on you when you needed it.
My IPSC Open Division racing gun has an 18 oz trigger pull. Yes, it's very light and I like it that way.....and I like racing guns because of what they can do in competition. I don't plan to ever use this device in a lethal encounter so for my needs it works as intended. I can shoot pretty much any pistol design with any flavor of trigger pull, but I PREFER to race with a very specific setup because it suits me. It is not a fragile setup by any means, and from time to time the slide will end up closing on an empty chamber (shooting it to empty for instance), and permitting this to occur on an occasional basis doesn't concern me. But not wanting to make a habit of slamming the slide when it is just as easy to simply close it myself is simply a case of trying to avoid tempting the Gods. Over the years, I've been bitten in competition enough times by equipment issues to know that if you abuse something enough, and use it enough, it WILL eventually fail on you at the worst possible time. So to me just not doing it is cheap, practical insurance.
And incidentally; if I was actually in a position that necessitated carrying a firearm for defensive use, I would sure as HELL not make a habit of slamming the slide on an empty chamber. Unlike the frivolous world of competition, a tool that you are betting your life on, or those of others, is the one gun that it would really matter a lot if it screwed up on you when you needed it.
Some good points made on both sides of the issue.
I'm on the I don't intentionally drop the slide on an empty chamber side of things.
I cringe everytime in a gunshop I see some noob do it with a pistol he has just asked to see and the counter person doesn't ask/tell them not to do it first, though. If you want to be on the side of things where you do it, then make sure you do it with your own kit and not someone elses....
NAA.
I'm on the I don't intentionally drop the slide on an empty chamber side of things.
I cringe everytime in a gunshop I see some noob do it with a pistol he has just asked to see and the counter person doesn't ask/tell them not to do it first, though. If you want to be on the side of things where you do it, then make sure you do it with your own kit and not someone elses....
NAA.
I see no valid reason to worry about it.
Very much indeed.
I fully agree. If your gun can't handle being closed on an empty chamber you bought a lemon. Oh hold on, is this another "1911" thing?? I thought they were the most reliable and dependable pistols ever made? On that note, why the special treatment for Norinco's I thought they were as good or better than brand name 1911's?
TDC
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