Anybody on this forum have a Russian Tokarev pistol,your opinions and input would be welcome, i have read that the 7.62 mm rd that this pistol uses is a potent cartridge. looking forward to hearing from Tokarev shooters. :?:
USSR Tokarev Pistol
- Thread starter x westie
- Start date
SwedeShooter
CGN Regular
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I've got a CZ-52. Same round, but the pistol has a much stronger action. It's fun, packs a bigger kick than a 9mm.
TT-33s are solidly built service pistols which shoot whatever 7.62x25 rounds you feed them. Compared to a 9mm, the 7.62x25 is much "snappier" when you drop the hammer.
They are slightly modifed variants of the usual Browning swinging link locking system and strip down very much like a Colt 1911 etc.
The TT-33 and variants all have a removeable hammer/sear assembly. This assembly also has what acts as the magazine feed lips built into it.
The initial TT-30 model does not have this feature.
I have both a 1938 Tula TT-33 with much service and a new T54. Both shot the same with their basic service sights and each functioned without fail using both Norinco and Czech rounds.
Given the price and availability of 7.62x25, only a .22 is cheaper to shoot right now.
They are slightly modifed variants of the usual Browning swinging link locking system and strip down very much like a Colt 1911 etc.
The TT-33 and variants all have a removeable hammer/sear assembly. This assembly also has what acts as the magazine feed lips built into it.
The initial TT-30 model does not have this feature.
I have both a 1938 Tula TT-33 with much service and a new T54. Both shot the same with their basic service sights and each functioned without fail using both Norinco and Czech rounds.
Given the price and availability of 7.62x25, only a .22 is cheaper to shoot right now.
The 7.62 pistol cartridge was also the cartridge of the Soviet PPSH Sub machine gun, this round had more range than the 9mm, the German Army discovered this during WW2, the MP38 aka, Schmisser smg using the 9mm was often at a disadvantage over Soviet 7.62, also in the Korean War, our troops found the PPSH smg with the 7.62 cartridge more potent than their Sten guns , which also used the 9mm.x westie said:
iamcanadianeh
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
I shot a CZ52 chambered for the same round and it was quite something!
FWIW, I have a '41 Tula T33 and a '52 made Hungarian Type 48 (an exact copy of the late-war T33). The earlier Soviet guns are more attractive IMHO with the stylized slide serrations. The later guns have better sights, are often found in better condition, but have less attractive 1911A1 style slide serrations.
Both guns were well served by a replacement spring kit from Wolff, but the new chicom copies should be good right out of the box.
The round is snappy. No doubt! In my experience the late produced satelite state Tokarevs such as the Yugo, Hungarian and Polish made guns are generally the best fit and finished guns. WRT the Yugos, I would personally only be interested in the original Yugo Type 48 Marstar 7used to sell a few years ago as I've never liked the later Yugo versions with the longer grip, stupid swing safety and 9mm chamberings. IMHO the 7.62 is, in many ways, a superior round to the 9mm anyhow!
The CZ52 is an interesting gun with a much more complex mechanism, but frankly I prefer the Tokarev. Contrary to popular belief, it's a more durable design with thicker barrel chamber walls and a meatier frame and it does not suffer from frequent firing pin breaks as the CZ52 is. Additionally, the Tokarev has an external slide release to allow one-handed operation which I really prefer.
The CZ is a good design, but the T33 was, IMHO, the right design for the Soviet Army. Cheaper and easier to manufacture, very rugged, SUPER easy to service and a trained chimp can use it effectively. I'm shocked they are not more popular in North America frankly. I once heard that the Soviets made twice as many hammer modules as guns and issued lots of spares to unit armorers. The idea being 95% of the time all it took to get a damaged Tok back into action was either replacement of a pistol grip or swapping out the hammer module. Either operation took less than 2 minutes in the field. :shock:
Both guns were well served by a replacement spring kit from Wolff, but the new chicom copies should be good right out of the box.
The round is snappy. No doubt! In my experience the late produced satelite state Tokarevs such as the Yugo, Hungarian and Polish made guns are generally the best fit and finished guns. WRT the Yugos, I would personally only be interested in the original Yugo Type 48 Marstar 7used to sell a few years ago as I've never liked the later Yugo versions with the longer grip, stupid swing safety and 9mm chamberings. IMHO the 7.62 is, in many ways, a superior round to the 9mm anyhow!
The CZ52 is an interesting gun with a much more complex mechanism, but frankly I prefer the Tokarev. Contrary to popular belief, it's a more durable design with thicker barrel chamber walls and a meatier frame and it does not suffer from frequent firing pin breaks as the CZ52 is. Additionally, the Tokarev has an external slide release to allow one-handed operation which I really prefer.
The CZ is a good design, but the T33 was, IMHO, the right design for the Soviet Army. Cheaper and easier to manufacture, very rugged, SUPER easy to service and a trained chimp can use it effectively. I'm shocked they are not more popular in North America frankly. I once heard that the Soviets made twice as many hammer modules as guns and issued lots of spares to unit armorers. The idea being 95% of the time all it took to get a damaged Tok back into action was either replacement of a pistol grip or swapping out the hammer module. Either operation took less than 2 minutes in the field. :shock:
Tokarev TT 33 performance versus CZ 52
I have 3 Tokarevs TT 33, and one CZ 52, among many others.
If my life depends on either one, I would always take the Tokarev.
CZ 52 had problems with the hammer dropping device.
At least those that were imported by former Century International
which gave written information of the possible dangers involved.
Collectors value ? Many thousands were imported.
Underrated and belittled by many,the Tokarev of mine has now approx.
8600 rounds through , never ever failed once with any kind of surplus
stuff, even the hotter Chechoslowak SMG rounds. (+20%).
I like them very much for it's reliability and powerful round.
The 7.62x 25mm cartridge in the Russian PPSH 41 and PPS 43
reapt havoc with the "opposition" at 4oo meters, when supported.
The German MP 40 could not manage at half that distance. No wonder.
cwlam3 said:
I have 3 Tokarevs TT 33, and one CZ 52, among many others.
If my life depends on either one, I would always take the Tokarev.
CZ 52 had problems with the hammer dropping device.
At least those that were imported by former Century International
which gave written information of the possible dangers involved.
Collectors value ? Many thousands were imported.
Underrated and belittled by many,the Tokarev of mine has now approx.
8600 rounds through , never ever failed once with any kind of surplus
stuff, even the hotter Chechoslowak SMG rounds. (+20%).
I like them very much for it's reliability and powerful round.
The 7.62x 25mm cartridge in the Russian PPSH 41 and PPS 43
reapt havoc with the "opposition" at 4oo meters, when supported.
The German MP 40 could not manage at half that distance. No wonder.
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TT33 is less complex and more reliable. The hammer/sear mechanism is the unique design and make field stripping/cleaning extremely easy. My TT-33 shoots more accrute than CZ52. Both are fun to shoot. Is it collectable - depends on your interest(it is yes if you are interest to collect military pistol which were no longer in production). Although small in caliber - the 7.62x25 bullet penetrates better than 9mm, 45ACP(illustrate in some shooting test conducted by the box-of-truth website).
TT 33 Tokarev
Many of the military surplus 7.62x 25 have hardened steel cores in
their projectiles, therefore one better makes sure to have a very safe back stop.
I found out the easy way. ????
The 9x19 Para penetrates only half as much in any material.
All our reloading books give lower specs on purpose!
A safety measure I guess.
CaptainW said:
Many of the military surplus 7.62x 25 have hardened steel cores in
their projectiles, therefore one better makes sure to have a very safe back stop.
I found out the easy way. ????
The 9x19 Para penetrates only half as much in any material.
All our reloading books give lower specs on purpose!
A safety measure I guess.
I personally saw 2 of the CZ52 , one with a split slide, the other
with a broken barrel where the roller unit separated from the barrel proper.
I could go over to my aquaintance and take pictures and post it here, if anyone is doubtful.
I hate to, because he is still mad about it ,but will certainly comply.
No, he did not get hurt!
with a broken barrel where the roller unit separated from the barrel proper.
I could go over to my aquaintance and take pictures and post it here, if anyone is doubtful.
I hate to, because he is still mad about it ,but will certainly comply.
No, he did not get hurt!
TT33 versus CZ 52
I checked your above mentioned site. Very revealing. Thank you!
Needless to say, that none of the CZ52 owners bothered reloading.
I have still 2000 rounds of surplus stuff left from a total of 2 crates
bought as surplus from Century Intnl. in Quebec. Laquered and brownish
colored. I assume Yugoslav manufacture, as I saw also Cyrilic writing
on it. If not, then they must have been of Russian origin. I doubt it though!
My own CZ 52 is the parkerized version and has roughly 400 rounds
through, without any ill effects so far.Must have been a good one...
Rudy H said:
I checked your above mentioned site. Very revealing. Thank you!
Needless to say, that none of the CZ52 owners bothered reloading.
I have still 2000 rounds of surplus stuff left from a total of 2 crates
bought as surplus from Century Intnl. in Quebec. Laquered and brownish
colored. I assume Yugoslav manufacture, as I saw also Cyrilic writing
on it. If not, then they must have been of Russian origin. I doubt it though!
My own CZ 52 is the parkerized version and has roughly 400 rounds
through, without any ill effects so far.Must have been a good one...
Globetrotter said:
Here's what's left of my old CZ, after 2 rounds of Norinco ammo(which is not nearly as hot as Czech)
Apparently there was a factory defect. After this, I wanted to change my CGN nickname to something else
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I've got the chinese type 54-1. For under $150 new, it's hard to beat. The fit and finish are good and the pistol never fails.Accuracy is good too. But the best part is using milsurp ball for under 6 cents a shot! And yes that czech ball lets you know when it leaves the barrel!
- Location
- Downtown Vancouver, BC
Where is 7.62x25mm the cheapest? Marstar has it for $225 plus shipping. Shipping to my door is $70. So that's basically $300 for a crate of 2280.
Lever arms is $295 for a crate of 2280, PLUS shipping. Any other sources?
Lever arms is $295 for a crate of 2280, PLUS shipping. Any other sources?
(((Echo)))
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Old Man Land, AB
I've got a Norc Tok and for $ its a blast. You gotta clean out the chamber if shooting the Czech surplus though. I've had some FTE's due to the chamber gumming up with laquer from the rounds. I was shooting hard and fast, though . Still, a snappy round. Chronoed around 1500+ fps.
(E)
. Still, a snappy round. Chronoed around 1500+ fps. (E)
