Vegan vs Meat Eater

[MattW]

I grew up in Ontario, milking cows and until my late 20's, farming made up most of the work I did- dairy, beef, and pigs. If it's commercially bought, it's been treated at some point with drugs. Dairy farmers are the worst- every one I've known and worked for has used additives or injections (bST, rumencin) to increase milk production, milk letdown, or faster growth to get cattle milking sooner. There's more likelihood of milk having additives getting to you than any meat product. That being said, there are pretty stringent rules on how long after any treatment with antibiotics or certain other drugs before an animal can be sent to slaughter- they do test, and weep for the man who gets caught cheating!

Unless it's already carrying a disease or infection (and it's not hard to tell), wild meat is going to be 'cleaner' provided you do your part in dressing and processing.

BST is not legal in Canada but it is legal and widely used in the US. There are no growth hormones allowed in dairy cattle in Canada. Rumensin is allowed but from what I've seen it's use is not widespread, it's basically a band-aid for nutrition problems and guys have figured out pretty quick that proper nutrition is the most cost effective way to produce milk. In general what you see in Canadian dairy is very carefully done feed rations with all the starches, proteins and minerals (corn, grass, grains and small amounts of minerals) balanced to optimize health and milk production. Any additives beyond that are not cost effective and of limited benefit anyway. Sick animals get treated and treated milk gets withheld. Some herds vaccinate for some common issues and some don't. When you have a large quantity of animals there will be health issues from time to time. Just like with any creature birth takes an enormous toll on cattle and it is birth that starts the lactic cycle and a lot of the same problems that come up with new moms come up with cows. Nutrition is used to best prepare the cow for calving and to keep the milk flowing after calving.
The penalties for shipping milk with any trace of antibiotics are severe. I've never had issue myself but I believe the first fine is $50,000, second fine is significantly more and third time you are done dairy farming. Three strikes in the lifetime of your farm. All milk is tested extensively before it is used for human consumption.
My cows are inside a barn but the sides open when the weather is anywhere above freezing so the air is good and it's bright with high ceilings. They sleep on sawdust so clean I wouldn't be concerned if my children played in it. We have robotic milkers and the cattle eat, lay down and get milked as they please. The floors believe it or not are clean enough (scraped six times a day) that you can walk around with the cattle and as long as you don't step directly in a plop your shoes will be clean other than the bottom of the sole, they're not ankle wading in manure.
I had the inspector at my farm last week and I commented that he hadn't visited in a year and a half and he said it was because there's nothing for him to do at my place. He spends 95% of his time at 5% of the farms and I'm not that 5%. There are still guys that have poor practices unfortunately.
By the way, I'm so confident that any person viewing my farm would like what they saw and want to drink milk that yesterday it was open to all the public as part of the local ag show.

 

[Mister Donut]

Hard to say. One of the craziest nights I ever had was with a vegan (or maybe a vegetarian, don't remember). Holy crap was she fun (she was a ginger, though).

Oohhh, a ginger and a vegan....*ucking Daywalker, haha!

 

[NorthernCX]

BST is not legal in Canada but it is legal and widely used in the US. There are no growth hormones allowed in dairy cattle in Canada. Rumensin is allowed but from what I've seen it's use is not widespread, it's basically a band-aid for nutrition problems and guys have figured out pretty quick that proper nutrition is the most cost effective way to produce milk. In general what you see in Canadian dairy is very carefully done feed rations with all the starches, proteins and minerals (corn, grass, grains and small amounts of minerals) balanced to optimize health and milk production. Any additives beyond that are not cost effective and of limited benefit anyway. Sick animals get treated and treated milk gets withheld. Some herds vaccinate for some common issues and some don't. When you have a large quantity of animals there will be health issues from time to time. Just like with any creature birth takes an enormous toll on cattle and it is birth that starts the lactic cycle and a lot of the same problems that come up with new moms come up with cows. Nutrition is used to best prepare the cow for calving and to keep the milk flowing after calving.
The penalties for shipping milk with any trace of antibiotics are severe. I've never had issue myself but I believe the first fine is $50,000, second fine is significantly more and third time you are done dairy farming. Three strikes in the lifetime of your farm. All milk is tested extensively before it is used for human consumption.
My cows are inside a barn but the sides open when the weather is anywhere above freezing so the air is good and it's bright with high ceilings. They sleep on sawdust so clean I wouldn't be concerned if my children played in it. We have robotic milkers and the cattle eat, lay down and get milked as they please. The floors believe it or not are clean enough (scraped six times a day) that you can walk around with the cattle and as long as you don't step directly in a plop your shoes will be clean other than the bottom of the sole, they're not ankle wading in manure.
I had the inspector at my farm last week and I commented that he hadn't visited in a year and a half and he said it was because there's nothing for him to do at my place. He spends 95% of his time at 5% of the farms and I'm not that 5%. There are still guys that have poor practices unfortunately.
By the way, I'm so confident that any person viewing my farm would like what they saw and want to drink milk that yesterday it was open to all the public as part of the local ag show.

I agree, but in my experience (and it was a few years ago, now, mind you), on the farms I worked on, I watched cows get injected with BST, and I remember hand-bombing rumencin to dairy cattle as a nutritional supplement under the guise of it being 'prescribed' by the vet/nutritionist. This was Ontario, again, I don't know the situation in BC, but those cattle got a complete ration, fed by computerized, motorized feeders. He ended up backing off after he started having to saw calves out of heifers. They were growing too big in the womb to pass the pelvis. Last I heard, that farmer was done with dairy and had moved on to sheep. He was a lazy farmer; milking was too much work. This was a 'modern' dairy farm, liquid manure system, self-regulating windows down both sides of the barn, 'free stall', etc. Clean as a whistle.

The big problem is in what is tested for at the labs. Many (but not all) farmers are always looking for an edge- increased production or weight gain while reducing costs, etc. When they can find something that gives a benefit, or a perceived benefit, then they, like any other business or person, even, is going to try it and get away with it as long as possible. If the labs only test for certain things, others may be getting past inadvertently. The same happens in drug testing- some 'designer' drugs don't show up on drug screening tests. But I still take milk on my cereal- I know how much work and care is taken at the dairies that package it for us.

 

[czscotia]

Did you know that the less meat a human eats the less chance of getting cancer they have?
also it is commanly acknowledged that "livestock production is one of the top two contributors to greenhouse gas emissions
accounting for at least 20% and by some estimates up to 50% of dangerous gasses in the
atmosphere- a greater impact than even transportion"

please don't kick me out...lol

 

[ironsighter]

The hypocrisy only comes in when there is a contradiction between thier actions and thier beliefs .There are plenty of people that get thier meat from a grocery store, yet for whatever reason do not hunt and do NOT have a problem with hunting and would gladly accept hunted meat if offered, there is no Hypocrisy there.
Lets make that distinction

Indeed, which is why I specified "meat-eating anti-hunters".

 

[upnadam]

Watched this clip and think its great to have a well spoken and smart person on our side. Long live the meat eater!!!!!

 

[mathil]

There's a cute vegan at work, but I love meat...is it worth the trouble?

It depends on if she likes the MEAT.