vietnam sniper rifle?

[mjcurry]

hi their
i was watching something on the history channel where they were traing snipers for the vietnam war. it looked like they were using m1 ( im not really sure what the difference is with the m305 m1 m14 is if someone could explain this also it would be appreciated). i thought these rifles weren't very accurate? i thought they used a .30-06?

 

[Skippy]

During Vietnam the USMC especially, and I believe the army as well used the M1-C and M1-D Garand variants. Basically just an m1 battle rifle with a scope and flash hider. You can usually tell the rifle by the awkward looking bell-shaped blash hider at the muzzle end.

I don't think accuracy would be much of an issue the Garand is, for all intents and purposes, as accurate as the bolt action's of the time.

This website has a lot of info on the sniper variants.
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_rifle_m1c-m1d.php

Also, badgerdog has a nice example in his collection:
http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/unitedstatesservicerifles/1944m1dspringfieldgarand2640920

It's missing the distinctive flash hider tho, which is funny because earlier this year I bought a very nice K98k from Badgerdog which I afforded by selling an original flash hider to a collector in New Jersey. I'm not sure how typical the pricing is, but it went for just less than $400 USD.

 

[t-star]

try the m21- a highly modified version of the 14- with a singlepoint screw mount- usually a 2 man team with an observer and sniper- btw, carlos hathcock used a model 70 winchester( they called it a "deer rifle) amongst others- included were the remington x40 and a bunch of others)

 

[Greenfields]

That is what I have read as well, allot of the sniper teams used "hunting rifles" as sniper outfits.

Cheers
Brian

 

[Khalnath]

The M1C, M1D, and M21 are very accurate rifles for the time. Purpose built bolt action sniper rifles are more accurate, but the semis are still nothing to sneeze at.

 

[sunray]

"...the difference is with the m305 m1 m14..." The M-1 is a first generation gas operated, semi-auto only, battle rifle using separate clips of 8 rounds of .30-06 ammo. The M-14 is a 'modernised', for the mid 50's, M-1 Garand using a 20 round, detachable, mag, a different gas system, selective fire(originally) and 7.62/.308 ammo. (It falls into the 'converted FA' class, so unless you had one prior to C68, you can't have a semi'd one.) The M305 is a Chinese made, semi-auto only, copy of the M-14.
Seeing M-1's in VN era film footage isn't unusual. The U.S. National Guard still had them in the 60's. Lots of 'em were sent to be issued to ARVN troopies as well. It wouldn't have been unusual for U.S. troopies to be able to get one or the ammo either. Even though M-1's and .30-06 ammo were not on general issue.
At the time, the U.S. Army only had M1C's and M-1D's, accurised and scoped M-1's, for use as a sniper's rifle and not many of them. The .308 bolt action Winchester M70's and Remington M700's were acquired when the U.S. Army started developing their Sniper/Scout school. #### Culver, who operates, jouster.com, was one of the original instructors, I think, at the school.

 

[Colin]

What did the Aussies use? their main rifle was the FN

 

[sf]

What did the Aussies use? their main rifle was the FN

Good question. I've never seen a picture or heard of an Aussie sniper in Nam. As the war progressed, Aussie discarded their L1A1s & adopted the M16s just like the US forces.

 

[kevin.303]

the aussies didn't retire there No.1 Mk 3 HT snipers unitl the 70's, so i imagine some saw use in Vietnam

 

[Winters]

Google M21 or M25 - both sniper variants of the M14

Spec calls for 5 rounds into 3" or less at 300yds...

Here's a Vietnam era pic of M14's:
http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/25ID_Vietnam_HuntingClub.asp

 

[echo4lima]

Carlos Hathcock even used a Browning M2 MG with a specially made scope mount, mounted on the traditional tripod and T&E for some exceptionally long distance sniping.

 

[the_big_mike]

actually the M21 came into play during vietnam.

 

[Jay]

Winters, that is a great pic! Thanks!

Cheers
Jay

 

[HPL]

Boy, I wouldn't want to have to pack that rifle around the jungle.

 

[Canuck I Am]

Those rifles look like some heavy mofos. I can only imagine how awkward they'd be to maneuver around dense foliage in high humidity.

 

[rottenfuher]

Did they not start to use the ART scope on the M14 at this time?

 

[t-star]

yes, the first generation arts i believe- these spec'd out about 69 as the xm21- standardized as the m21 however, that's not one - according to the line that goes with the picture, it's a starlite used for night vision stuff-

 

[sf]

Check out those Ho Chi Minh sandals. The VC trackers are going to be really confused.

By the way, I think I see GT in that picture.

 

[the_big_mike]

I thought they didnt like the starlight system, because it ####ed up the natural adjustment of the eyes in the dark.

 

[c1a1]

.50 BMG Sniper Equipment

Carlos Hathcock even used a Browning M2 MG with a specially made scope mount, mounted on the traditional tripod and T&E for some exceptionally long distance sniping.

In Korea in 1951, 8 power Unertl scopes were mounted on .50 cal. M2's for long range sniping. During the Vietnam era, the Marines used AN/TVS-2 crew-served night vision scopes on the .50's. Carlos Hathcock also used a Unertl scope.