Vz.24 pistol from Wolverine Supplies Surplus Sale. New photos and poll added.
- Thread starter fugawi
- Start date
I didn't even know it was for sale.
Well why didn't you send me the link or tell me it was for sale. (about as assuming as your question!
So Coyote Ugly... just what is the 'topic' (ie your agenda) here?
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Don't know about the CZ-24, being that I have never had one apart, but most rotating-barrel pistols are LISTED as recoil-operated but are, in fact, TORQUE-LOCKED.
Great example is the 1911 STEYR. It fires a very high-powered cartridge and has a 4-groove barrel with VERY deep rifling. If you go downrange and pick up a slug, it almost looks like a rounded square: absolutely impossible to mistake for anything else.
At the moment of firing, the gun is UNLOCKED. Until the firing-pin runs forward and detonates the primer, pulling back the slide is easy. Just a fairly light pull and the slide comes back, its inside cams rotating the barrel out of engagement with the slide and the frame. The barrel spins its quarter of a turn, the round is extracted and ejected, then, when the slide is released, the slide runs forward, picking up another round and chambering it, and the barrel spins back into engagement with the slide cuts and the frame channel.
But just as soon as the thing starts to build PRESSURE, the BULLET starts into the rifling. The bullet is spun to the RIGHT by the rifling, meaning that it also exerts a considerable TORQUE to the LEFT.... and the higher the breech pressure, the more left-hand torque will be generated. The guns are quite amazingly tolerant of pressure variations for this reason.
The Bullet passes down the Bore, keeping this TORQUE up as long as it has the Rifling to grip it. When the Bullet exits from the Muzzle, all TORQUE stops, barrel pressure falls to zero..... and the residual pressure of the cartridge-casing against the face of the Slide pushes the Slide rearwards....... spinning the barrel.... extracting the empty..... ejecting the empty.... depressing the Disconnector..... the Slide runs over the Hammer, cocking it..... the thing brings up against the Frame and starts forward..... stripping a round from the Magazine...... chambering said round....... and spinning the Barrel back into engagement.
Apart from the rather tiny Disconnector moving vertically, all motion is in a straight line fore and aft. The gun has an awkward grip angle and produces 420 ft/lbs at the muzzle, yet it is very comfortable to shoot and it is extremely accurate. In all, one of the best $139 investments I have ever made and, for that money, mine was personally picked for barrel condition by Tom Bongalis, many years ago.
It has been around now for 101 years and the books STILL insist that it is short-recoil-operated or delayed blowback.... or both.... but the fact remains that it is STILL locked by the TORQUE of the bullet during that time when it actually is passing down the bore.
From the barrel lugs on Fugawi's VZ-24, I would think that this Czech design was VERY similar to the 1911....... which was designed by fellow Bohemian Sylvestr Krnka with the special cartridge being designed by George Roth, a specialist in high-powered amunition.
Hope this helps.
.
Great example is the 1911 STEYR. It fires a very high-powered cartridge and has a 4-groove barrel with VERY deep rifling. If you go downrange and pick up a slug, it almost looks like a rounded square: absolutely impossible to mistake for anything else.
At the moment of firing, the gun is UNLOCKED. Until the firing-pin runs forward and detonates the primer, pulling back the slide is easy. Just a fairly light pull and the slide comes back, its inside cams rotating the barrel out of engagement with the slide and the frame. The barrel spins its quarter of a turn, the round is extracted and ejected, then, when the slide is released, the slide runs forward, picking up another round and chambering it, and the barrel spins back into engagement with the slide cuts and the frame channel.
But just as soon as the thing starts to build PRESSURE, the BULLET starts into the rifling. The bullet is spun to the RIGHT by the rifling, meaning that it also exerts a considerable TORQUE to the LEFT.... and the higher the breech pressure, the more left-hand torque will be generated. The guns are quite amazingly tolerant of pressure variations for this reason.
The Bullet passes down the Bore, keeping this TORQUE up as long as it has the Rifling to grip it. When the Bullet exits from the Muzzle, all TORQUE stops, barrel pressure falls to zero..... and the residual pressure of the cartridge-casing against the face of the Slide pushes the Slide rearwards....... spinning the barrel.... extracting the empty..... ejecting the empty.... depressing the Disconnector..... the Slide runs over the Hammer, cocking it..... the thing brings up against the Frame and starts forward..... stripping a round from the Magazine...... chambering said round....... and spinning the Barrel back into engagement.
Apart from the rather tiny Disconnector moving vertically, all motion is in a straight line fore and aft. The gun has an awkward grip angle and produces 420 ft/lbs at the muzzle, yet it is very comfortable to shoot and it is extremely accurate. In all, one of the best $139 investments I have ever made and, for that money, mine was personally picked for barrel condition by Tom Bongalis, many years ago.
It has been around now for 101 years and the books STILL insist that it is short-recoil-operated or delayed blowback.... or both.... but the fact remains that it is STILL locked by the TORQUE of the bullet during that time when it actually is passing down the bore.
From the barrel lugs on Fugawi's VZ-24, I would think that this Czech design was VERY similar to the 1911....... which was designed by fellow Bohemian Sylvestr Krnka with the special cartridge being designed by George Roth, a specialist in high-powered amunition.
Hope this helps.
.
fugawi,
I am very sorry that you are being hassled by these goons.
They get a bee in their bonnet and stop thinking, they attack the result of a problem rather than the cause. (oh well- they are not the first of the human species to be this foolish.)
They fail to look at things that can be addressed- like "The law" itself.
How about they go and hassle the blokes that take a perfectly good antique status pistol, and modify it with a cylinder and barrel that now shoots a caliber of bullet that was not in existence when the thing was made. The caliber they change it to is invariably to "hot" for the frame of the poor old thing, resulting in a very dangerous toy. Not to mention ruining a perfectly good antique- that was safe to begin with.
Again sorry about the goons.
janice.
I am very sorry that you are being hassled by these goons.
They get a bee in their bonnet and stop thinking, they attack the result of a problem rather than the cause. (oh well- they are not the first of the human species to be this foolish.)
They fail to look at things that can be addressed- like "The law" itself.
How about they go and hassle the blokes that take a perfectly good antique status pistol, and modify it with a cylinder and barrel that now shoots a caliber of bullet that was not in existence when the thing was made. The caliber they change it to is invariably to "hot" for the frame of the poor old thing, resulting in a very dangerous toy. Not to mention ruining a perfectly good antique- that was safe to begin with.
Again sorry about the goons.
janice.
stickhunter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria, B.C.
Thanks for your thorough description, smellie. I learned something new! I really enjoy understanding exactly how the various firearms operate, and it's always a marvel to see the ingenuity of the designers.
Hey Coyote Ugly...
Since you missed out on buying a vz.24 pistol at the Wolverine Surplus Sale and since you were so kind as to tell me where to find a dewat vz.27 (even though that's not going to work in my display), I thought I'd return the favour...
John's Vault
Prohib 12.6 Pistols
Please refer to the firearm's tag number when making enquiries: we sometimes have several of the same make and model!
J210 CZ 24 7.65mm Good Prohibited Weapon $###.xx In Stock
Since you told us you have a 12.6...
As you said...
Clean it, reassemble it, use it. Take photos, learn how it works. You can even make a report here, I wont mind!
Do something constructive for a change. The Milsurps forum is about learning about milsurps. So come on Coyote Ugly - FACTA NON VERBA!
************
And this will be my next to last post in this thread. This thread has become a PITA and is turning into a colossal waste of time and effort!
Too bad the thread was hijacked by online bullies (you know who you are) because that's what this is: BULLYING by those who have an opinion and won't accept that anyone can have one different from their's. I have had a least one 'nutter tell me he has a dewat pistol that I've encouraged him to post about, but he is concerned about being slagged.
Don't let the bullies win... STAND UP - LOOK THEM IN THE FACE - PUT THEM IN THEIR PLACE! Do we really want this forum to be about "how much is my Mosin Nagant worth... how much is my Garand worth... how much is my (your gun here) worth..."
As smellie has said, we need to change the laws or all we will have left of these 12.6 milsurps is pictures in a book or Youtube videos of 'nutters in other countries shooting their's and OUR guns.
LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR vz.24 and vz.27 RANGE REPORTS COYOTE UGLY
Since you missed out on buying a vz.24 pistol at the Wolverine Surplus Sale and since you were so kind as to tell me where to find a dewat vz.27 (even though that's not going to work in my display), I thought I'd return the favour...
John's Vault
Prohib 12.6 Pistols
Please refer to the firearm's tag number when making enquiries: we sometimes have several of the same make and model!
J210 CZ 24 7.65mm Good Prohibited Weapon $###.xx In Stock
Since you told us you have a 12.6...
...you won't have to make/replace the barrel. So why don't you rescue it and save this poor prohib from a life of ignominy, sitting unloved on a shelf. Since you don't need to make a barrel, you can even save one of Marstar's vz.27s too! (maybe even two)The Gunsmiths/Machinists I know have 12.6 and so do I...
Too Late Smart and too Soon Old. But you seem to "Know it All" anyway.
As you said...
Clean it, reassemble it, use it. Take photos, learn how it works. You can even make a report here, I wont mind!
Do something constructive for a change. The Milsurps forum is about learning about milsurps. So come on Coyote Ugly - FACTA NON VERBA!
************
And this will be my next to last post in this thread. This thread has become a PITA and is turning into a colossal waste of time and effort!
Too bad the thread was hijacked by online bullies (you know who you are) because that's what this is: BULLYING by those who have an opinion and won't accept that anyone can have one different from their's. I have had a least one 'nutter tell me he has a dewat pistol that I've encouraged him to post about, but he is concerned about being slagged.
Don't let the bullies win... STAND UP - LOOK THEM IN THE FACE - PUT THEM IN THEIR PLACE! Do we really want this forum to be about "how much is my Mosin Nagant worth... how much is my Garand worth... how much is my (your gun here) worth..."
As smellie has said, we need to change the laws or all we will have left of these 12.6 milsurps is pictures in a book or Youtube videos of 'nutters in other countries shooting their's and OUR guns.
LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR vz.24 and vz.27 RANGE REPORTS COYOTE UGLY
Agreed! I am amazed by this design now and will have to seek out a 1911 Steyr-Hahn so I can evaluate this barrel design in more detail.
I don't think it would be as enjoyable at the range with a new barrel as the pistol itself would be significantly changed. The caliber would also have to be different too as I think you mentioned it was .32 ACP ? Would the future collector market appreciate it ? Would they label it as "bubba" work ? The same can be said about the dewatts, can they also be equally appreciated by the current and future generations of collectors ?
What it boils down to, it seems, is this: Leave it alone in 12.6 class for eventual melt down, rebarrel it with a longer barrel in another caliber, dewatt in "as is" condition.
None of the choices are pleasent but I would rather see it in a loving collection then collecting dust on a forgotten shelf.
The best example I can relate is when I made the decision regarding my 1914 Luger P08. She was in the 12.6 class. I chose to fit a new barrel in the same caliber so she would be in the restricted class and I could shoot her. Will future generations blame me for my decision decades later after I am gone and my Luger is on the open collector market ? Only time will tell.
What it boils down to, it seems, is this: Leave it alone in 12.6 class for eventual melt down, rebarrel it with a longer barrel in another caliber, dewatt in "as is" condition.
None of the choices are pleasent but I would rather see it in a loving collection then collecting dust on a forgotten shelf.
The best example I can relate is when I made the decision regarding my 1914 Luger P08. She was in the 12.6 class. I chose to fit a new barrel in the same caliber so she would be in the restricted class and I could shoot her. Will future generations blame me for my decision decades later after I am gone and my Luger is on the open collector market ? Only time will tell.
Let me get this straight... you say you "have no interest in Paperweight Dewat Czech Pistols", yet you voted 'Yes I want to learn about a milsurp even if its a dewat'.
Let me get this straight... you say you "have no interest in Paperweight Dewat Czech Pistols", yet you voted 'Yes I want to learn about a milsurp even if its a dewat'.
there are people out there that if you gave them a twenty dollar bill they would complain you didn't give them two tens.
The poll is now closed. Final results:
This poll will close on 05-20-2012 at 06:36 PM
Yes I want to learn about a milsurp even if its a dewat.
42 93.33%
No if its a dewat then it does not belong on CGN.
3 6.67%
93.33% in favour of learning about a firearm even if its dewated, 6.67% not. Thanks for voting. And thank you for all the personal PMs I received in support of myself and the thread.
Now those 'nutters who also have dewat firearms (and I know some who do) lets learn something about them. And if there are members with 12.6s and they own a vz.24 pistol how about a range report and close ups of one disassembled.
This poll will close on 05-20-2012 at 06:36 PM
Yes I want to learn about a milsurp even if its a dewat.
42 93.33%
No if its a dewat then it does not belong on CGN.
3 6.67%
93.33% in favour of learning about a firearm even if its dewated, 6.67% not. Thanks for voting. And thank you for all the personal PMs I received in support of myself and the thread.
Now those 'nutters who also have dewat firearms (and I know some who do) lets learn something about them. And if there are members with 12.6s and they own a vz.24 pistol how about a range report and close ups of one disassembled.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I never shot my VZ 24, I should take it out and see how it works.
This class system really ticks me off.
The politicians that make these laws think they know whats best for the public. They are scr*wing young people that want to follow in our footsteps and collect pieces of history.
In order for the younger generation to collect historical firearms, they have to take what they can get even deactivated pieces. They are not being melted down or ground up, criticizing these collectors shows a lack of understanding of their position.
So who is going to work to change a law that discriminates against the younger generation?
I guess we will all have to work to change the D*m laws. Now that the long gun registry is gone, will the hunters just say "we got what we wanted, tough luck to the 12-# guys"?
This class system really ticks me off.
The politicians that make these laws think they know whats best for the public. They are scr*wing young people that want to follow in our footsteps and collect pieces of history.
In order for the younger generation to collect historical firearms, they have to take what they can get even deactivated pieces. They are not being melted down or ground up, criticizing these collectors shows a lack of understanding of their position.
So who is going to work to change a law that discriminates against the younger generation?
I guess we will all have to work to change the D*m laws. Now that the long gun registry is gone, will the hunters just say "we got what we wanted, tough luck to the 12-# guys"?
I have my eyes on another Luger P08 as well as a Mauser model 1914 if the 12.6 law is tossed or changed to exclude century old firearms.
Are you really going to see a two bit crook rob a gas station clerk with a Luger ? Not likely.
I'm all for getting another bill forward, does anyone know how to navigate through the political bullsh!t to do it ?
Are you really going to see a two bit crook rob a gas station clerk with a Luger ? Not likely.
I'm all for getting another bill forward, does anyone know how to navigate through the political bullsh!t to do it ?
