Vz-58 Vs Ar??

Clobbersauras

Clobbersauras

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Which do you prefer and why? I have owened both and prefer the VZ.

Why? I like the 7.62 x 39 have read much about it and in a semi auto config much prefer it to .223...

Question though - how"robust" is the VZ?..I've had no problems with mine....but are they generally considered more robust than the AR...especially in the middle eastern enviro??? Have any "operators" out there used them in combat and care to give us your input?

This one should be good:D :D :D
 
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Seriously? I shot the Vz.58 and it felt flimsy and rattled badly. The folding stock felt awkward and muzzle flip was pretty high. Reloads were a PITA and I could not intuitively find the magwell. Ergonomics are crude and the trigger also sucked. The only thing I liked about it were the sights. It's like comparing a Skoda to a Cadillac, well, an older pre-VW Skoda..
 
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koalorka said:
Seriously? I shot the Vz.58 and it felt flimsy and rattled badly. The folding stock felt awkward and muzzle flip was pretty high. Reloads were a PITA and I could not intuitively find the magwell. Ergonomics are crude and he trigger also sucked. The only thing I liked about it were the sights. It's like comparing a Skoda to a Cadillac, well, an older Skoda in the pre-VW days..
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I hate the folding stock - too short and PITA to fold...sits in my safe unused. Otherwise I find my VZ solid and well built. Now that I have the PKAS on it I LOVE it!
 
How about an AR -15 in .300 Whisper? All the ergonomics and reliability of the AR, but iwith a .30 cal bullet that WILL feed in the AR mags.

Or better yet,

Like Hungry says,
how about TWO of them?

One a 16" HBAR with full "modular expansion capabilities" ... up to and including bolting on the aircraft landing lights to the quad rail.

Another simpler, lighter Tac carbine with an 8" barrel ... cause with the .300 Whisper, you do NOT get all that Flash/BOOM in a shortened barrel.

PS: just from handling it in gun stores, I DO like the VZ as a POTENTIAL waiting for some customisation. An ergonomic folding stock and replacement pistol grip [ just like an AR 15? ... or even {GASP} a bullpup ] would make this little gem into something quite nice.
Happy Humbug
[;{)
LAZ 1
 
I think, that with more accessories becoming available, the Vz-58 clan could give the AR-15 a run for it's money. As for the ergonomics (someone mentioned reloads) I suppose that practice and more familiarity will help to solve that 'problem'
 
I own a couple of AR's but I prefer the VZ-58. In its current state the VZ58 is a nice rifle for left handed shooters. With a few modifications these left handed ergonomics can be reversed.

Right out of the boxes, the VZ-58s were comfortable, they rotate from the low to high ready positions smoothly, the VZ-58 is very light and extremely durable. I find them accurate right out of the box, easily putting all rounds into the 8" scoring ring of an IDPA target from 165 yards with the open sites offhand.

We have had no FTF's or malfunctions with our VZ58's. I cannot say the same for my AR-15s. The more I shoot the VZ-58 the better it feels. Sure it is not black and uber cool looking, or has the KevB seal of approval, but I prefer the dependability and durability of the VZ-58.
 
Although I really had fun playing with peoples VZ's, if I had to choose to have only one or the other, I'd pick the AR.

I will have to buy a VZ though.. just cause I can.
 
Most malf's on an AR can be rectified faster than most VZ shooters can find their magwells and then fumble a mag change, followed by the clumsy grope for the bolt handle to chamber the first round. It's not the VZ operator's fault...it's just not a very ergonomic rifle compared to the AR. I think the designer must have been left-handed, like Sam Colt.

Advantage AR. ;)
 
I find the open action of the VZ a benefit compared to the AR. If there is a malfunction the action is totally open from three sides. On the other hand, the AR has to be opened on it's hinges to get at it. How reasonable is that?

As regards age of the design, I know people who prefer the StG43 to the M-16.The VZ is a well designed rifle. It is just diferent than the AR and both have their weaknesses and strengths. A changeable barrel on the VZ as well as caliber would be a plus.My 858 is quite accurate at 200 yards.
 
I dunno to me it's a question of mood. One day I love my AR, the other day I love my VZ, another time I miss my FAL...you know what I mean. :D
 
Six Star said:
Most malf's on an AR can be rectified faster than most VZ shooters can find their magwells and then fumble a mag change, followed by the clumsy grope for the bolt handle to chamber the first round. It's not the VZ operator's fault...it's just not a very ergonomic rifle compared to the AR. I think the designer must have been left-handed, like Sam Colt.

Advantage AR. ;)
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Why do you say that??? I don't have a VZ, but the part about being a lefthand designer??

It almost sounds like you're one of those people who feel that the 1873 model SAA is left handed in design,I know you didn't say that ,and I don't mean to Hi-jack this thread.but just cuious about VZ's right now.Agree with most of what you said ,but being lefthanded,what about the VZ is lefthand??



Thanks,
 
Hitzy said:
Had both, sold the VZ.....wasn't impressed with it.
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I think thats because you got one that wasnt in such great shape.

I shot the VZ and it was extremely fun. Its lightweight and I found it still very controlable with the Slovak brake. I had no problems with the folder but I wasnt shooting from a bench. Its a nice rifle but I wouldnt give up my sig or my AR's for it.
 
Have both. keeping both.

I can do a mag change on a Vz.58 pretty quick, I have no idea how quick, or compared to an AR15 mag change, but there is no fumbling once you figure out your rhythm.
 
AR is by far the better weapon and the comparison is not even close. The only thing the 58 has going for it is the 858 being non-restricted :)
 
G37 said:
AR is by far the better weapon and the comparison is not even close. The only thing the 58 has going for it is the 858 being non-restricted :)
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...and cheap ammo....like two shots with the 58/858 for every one AR shot.
So it's probably best to own one AR and one 58/858.:)
 
Lazerus2000 said:
How about an AR -15 in .300 Whisper? All the ergonomics and reliability of the AR, but iwith a .30 cal bullet that WILL feed in the AR mags.

Or better yet,

Like Hungry says,
how about TWO of them?

One a 16" HBAR with full "modular expansion capabilities" ... up to and including bolting on the aircraft landing lights to the quad rail.

Another simpler, lighter Tac carbine with an 8" barrel ... cause with the .300 Whisper, you do NOT get all that Flash/BOOM in a shortened barrel.

PS: just from handling it in gun stores, I DO like the VZ as a POTENTIAL waiting for some customisation. An ergonomic folding stock and replacement pistol grip [ just like an AR 15? ... or even {GASP} a bullpup ] would make this little gem into something quite nice.
Happy Humbug
[;{)
LAZ 1
Click to expand...


I have almost no experience at all with the 300 Whisper.
However, having built a 7.62 Grendel on an AR15 platform, I tend to agree with what you say, knowing that the 2 cartriges are very similar.

About the other cartriges and the bullpup, it's been tryed, I wish they change the laws so I can do a bullpup like this:

Dr.Lector said:
Deckard said:
58versions.jpg

58versions2.jpg
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For me, it's no surprise that that type of receiver can hold 308 recoil. Receiver, though, has to be a little longer (than the regular receiver for 7.62 x 39 or 5.56). It would be interesting to know if the one in 7.62x51 is also denominated "Sa" (samopal=smg=full auto), cause if it is, then it's the ultimate proof of the strenght of that receiver. Also, I wonder if the bolt locks into the barrel or still in the receiver. Mean looking straight mag, nice gun altogether.


The bullpup, though, is new to me and it's a nice surprise. I didn't see it before, I wonder if they issued this to troops.
Apparently, they engineered and put (part of) the trigger group in a separate box which replaces the foregrip. I think the hammer, full auto sear and some other stuff still had to stay in the receiver. I wonder what they did with the selector switch, probably it's the thinghie between the pistol grip and trigger guard.
Note the slick shield over the bolt carrier on the left side to protect the shooter from hot gases, I like that.
I don't know if the rail and carry handle are original from that era.
They had to slightly cut the pistol grip at the bottom probably to make room for the mag, but see how much cooler it looks. Interesting to know if anybody attempted this cut on the pistol grip (just for looks) on the regular VZs and CZs recently imported in Canada.

The whole thing is so cool looking.
I don't remember seeing so much common sense when somebody tried bullpuping something. Finesse and technique...
I'm sure the Russian designers had to learn a lot from this...
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http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=839696&#post839696
 
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