Here are the new FAQs. If I missed anything, let me know and I will add it.
Note: Many Photos Deleted, So Start At Page 100 Or So for photos.
VZ-58 and variant FAQs
Devoted to this unique sporting target hunting rifle
“If Deckard and the others want to make a detailed FAQ - I will sticky it.”
KevinB Thanks for the sticky gents!
The 58's designer was Jiří Čermák.
The carbine began under the project codename "KOŠTĚ", or "Broom", in English. Development began in January of 1956, and the rifle was adopted for service only 2 years later, in 1958.
CZ=Česká zbrojovka a.s., Uherský Brod
VZ=vzor = model, type, pattern.
They are the same thing as sa vz.58 and sa.58 for that matter, as sa means samopal which means submachine gun. The Canadian carbine is not a samopal.
Let’s start by stating that the VZ-58 in all its shapes and forms is NOT a variant of the AK-47/AKM rifle whatsoever. No parts interchange. The 58 is the bottom one…
Read this to see that no aspect of the VZ is interchangeable with the AK. Mechanically, it is entirely different.
http://50ae.net/VZ-vs-AK/
Sa vz. 58 Military Technical Specifications
Caliber 7.62 x 39 mm
Produced 1959–1984
Number built Approx. 920,000
Muzzle velocity 771 yds/s
Effective range - against individual targets up to 655 yds
Effective range - against group targets up to 875 yds
Maximum range 3,060 yds
Practical rate of fire 40 shots/min.
Rifle weight without magazine 6.61 lbs
Weight of an empty magazine 0.42 lbs
Weight of a full magazine 1.50 lbs
Rifle length 33.3 in
Rifle width 2.32 in
Rifle height without magazine 6.69 in
Rifle height with magazine 9.96 in
Barrel length 15.14 in
Number of grooves inem the barrel 4
Length of the rifling 9.45 in
Trigger pull 5.51 - 5.95 lbs (24.5 - 26.5 N)
Sights Open-type iron sights with sliding
rear tangent and shrouded front post
353 mm (13.9 in) sight radius
There are several Vzor 58 type semi-automatic carbines on the market. They come from different factories within the Czech or Slovak Republics. Means of manufacturing varies. The model known as the VZ-58S (CZH 2003 Sport) is restricted and has proven to be very reliable. The CZ-858 is made by another source and some users on this forum have reported reliability problems having to do with the striker system. These have been admirably rectified by the vendor as they crop up. Some users perform home gunsmithing with replacement parts to solve the problem.
The striker problem, according to slicknick:
“The striker will not catch on the sear. This allows the striker to travel foreward with the rest of the bolt/carrier and leaves the weapon uncocked after the action has cycled.”
Some points worth considering:
VZ-58S – restricted, chrome bore. A semi-auto version of the rifle serving Czech and Slovak troops today.
CZ-858 – Non-restricted, non-chrome bore. So you can take this out in the back country shooting. The VZ-58S can only be used on a government approved range. The non-chrome bore, however, requires careful attention after shooting sessions to prevent rust development.
New Update:
A further variant, the VZ-58L has just hit the market and sports a long barrel and chrome bore. This means less rust and the joy of taking it outside the range for shooting. It is non-restricted.
__________________________
VZ-58 - restreint et avec le chrome.
CZ-585 - non-restreint et sans chrome.
Il a été annoncé que certaines personnes 858s ont des problèmes d'opération. Le vendeur, pourtant, est rapide pour aider.
CZ-58L- Ce fusil est chromé et non-restreint. Apparemment, il est difficile de trouver.
Chez Marstar (qui vend le VZ-58 et le 58L) emploie des francophones. Quelqu'un avec une meilleure compréhension de grammaire, corrigez s'il vous plaît mes fautes.
_________________________
When you buy a 58…
You will want to fieldstrip the rifle for inspection and cleaning. But how do I fieldstrip this thing?
[youtube]cBa5yoWlGBg[/youtube]
[youtube]Q-vSb4xpQBM[/youtube]
There are some good videos out there, provided by Finns and people right here from CGN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki7PV2WdKA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUAX2wlnshA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sxjdJLkhRg
The thing to remember is clear the chamber and pull the trigger to release the dust cover.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159089
Clean that dirty zombie whore with boiling water...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bf0J6Taue4
But I can’t put it back together again! Help!
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55942
Hint: Pressing down on the sear allows the bolt assembly to go forward without coming apart.
I still need a manual, though. None came with the rifle.
http://stevespages.com/pdf/vz_58_sporter.pdf
http://stevespages.com/pdf/vz_58_military_folder.pdf
http://stevespages.com/pdf/cz58.pdf
Any internal drawings?
http://skorpion-galerie.wz.cz/Vzor58.htm
HOW DO I TAKE OUT THE TRIGGER GROUP?
The infamous 858 bug or “Gremlin”:
a.k.a. Le diablotin infâme
The darn thing is not working!
There has been some reports of some rifles not working. The vast majority work totally well all the time. Finicky problems have occurred in all models along the way, and in every instance, the vendors have stepped up and taken action. This is what I call customer service. I have no problem owning any of the models, or recommending any dealer. Even if you are passed a dud from another gun owner, the dealers have typically said: “Send it to me, and I’ll sort it out.” That is A-OK in my books. Selling another gun owner a dud means you need a good nutting though, IMHO.
Problem: Gun fires a few rounds (anywhere from 2-20) then I pull the trigger and nothing. No click.
Watch G37's video:
Eject the shell and find what appears to be a weak primer hit...but when I pulled the trigger there was no click. Re-insert cartridge and bang off she goes.
What appears to me to be happening is the Hammer (if that is what it is called) is not catching on the ummm hammer catch. thus when the bolt goes forward momentum is causing the slight primer hit.
When I remove the dust cover/springs and cycle the bolt by hand everything appears to function as it should with plenty of interference between the hammer and hammer catch nothing appears to be misaligned and none of the parts appear to be worn.
If the weak hammer hits were just a touch more I am pretty sure it would go FA or a nice little 2-3 round burst. Although I would love to shoot a FA gun I would rather it be my choice not my guns.
This gun has less than 500 rounds through it. Any ideas guys? Anyone had this problem?
WATCH THIS VIDEO FIRST! Thanks to smartbomb for this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEN-mp6sRbI
Everyone watch that all the way through.[/QUOTE]
The Hackmaster replies:
“I have this problem with mine and I hear it is a very common one to have in this gun. Whats happening (in mine anyway) is the trigger is somehow being pulled right after the bolt begins its foreward travel after ejecting the spent round. You can test this by cycling the action by hand and pulling the trigger when the bolt is about an inch away from seating. What happens then is the firing rod (if thats its name) follows the bolt forewards and hits the shell, but without enough momentum to cause a bump fire. All you need to do to prevent this is practice your shot follow through.”
Jeagermeister adds,
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127851
“The striker is not caught by the sear during the cycle, therefore the striker
travels forward with the bolt and fails to ####. There are two possibilities
that cause this failure.
1. Sear does not positively engage striker. This can be due to poor striker/sear mating, either because of weak spring pressure and/or the surface
area between sear and striker is at a somewhat less then optimum angle.
Carefully file/hone the sear to achieve a square/parallel engagement area on the sear 'nose'.
2. Disconnector/sear trip fail to contact enough with the bolt assembly to disconnect/reset trigger. This is most likely to be the problem. In these mass
produce, inexpensive guns the +/- tolerances on the parts are somewhat greater. It can and has happended that when all the trigger and bolt parts
are on the minus side of their tolerance specs they fail to do their job.
Remove cover and springs from receiver (gun unloaded of course), work
bolt assembly back and forth while holding down the trigger (just like it would during a cycle) watch the the bolt carrier assembly contact and push down
the disconnector. Does it do it positvely or just half-heartedly, especially when one lifts up on the bolt carrier assembly while it travels in the
receiver rail.
I had to install a number of different Action/trigger parts at times to find some
that were on the plus side of their tolerance specs to make some guns work
properly. Best bet is to invest in a spare parts kit ($95) and switch out
the required number of parts to make the gun work.
This is just my opinion, so no guarantee's.”
Beergut:
“I had the same problem with my 858, you will need a wolverine parts kit to fix or if your really good with a welder and a file you can fix it yourself. I don’t know all the technical names for it but there is a pin that sticks straight up and is rounded on the top. the clearance between the bolt and this pin is too great causing the part that catches the striker not to reset so its doesn’t catch it. that pin just needs to be a bit longer for everything to work again.
This problem will get worse after a while.
I used silver solder to lengthen it then files it round just so i could go shooting the weekend before my parts kit got here. Worked perfect for about 200 rounds.”
Moike: "One of the problems with these guns is when the angle block was welded in to prevent full auto parts from being installed, the spring that lays on the bottom of the receiver was sometimes affected. Or sometimes the spring just takes a set. Keep in mind that most of these parts are sometimes over 40 years old. The simplest thing to do is strip the rifle. On the inside of the right receiver wall, push down the front of the sheet metal retaining clip (it is riveted to the receiver wall). This will allow you to move the pin holding the sear in place, there by giving you access to the sear spring. Stretch the spring upwards so it rests about ¼ inch higher than it now rests. Reassemble and test fire. If your problem is not cured, stretch the spring a little more. I would definitely try this before spending money on parts or welding anything. I have encountered similar problems with these rifles before and this little “trick” has worked every time I tried it. My $0.02."
Info on vz58 cz858 gremlin how to fix (by obiwanbonjovi)
"From what I have read all over this page it seems the general belief is that the gremlin is caused by the bolt carrier failing to disconnect the trigger. Until today that was my understanding. Wrong, the carriers seem to disconnect trigger every time. The problem is caused by the striker re-connecting trigger, by forcing the sear down too far during its rearward travel. The fix: more overtravel . How you give it more overtravel depends on why its happening, rifles that have the gremlin recurring often usually need the overtravel stop filed, if gremlin occurs only when very lightly feathering trigger a stiffer sear spring, or block under sear spring will increase trigger weight slightly and will naturally cause you to pull trigger farther after hammer falls. A stiffer sear spring will also slow the sears downward travel when hammer rides over it, lessening the chance of a reconnect."
peirecce says to fix it you must...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2397511&postcount=1
US pattern G37-made bolt mod fixes the problem. Why the factory can't sort it out is a matter of concern. It's not like they haven't heard of it.
The G37 mod tested:
http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/G37G37/Gun Stuff/?action=view¤t=Gremlin.flv
Source:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289003
More links for the Gremlin:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2616964&postcount=1
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169256
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160900
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127851
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104031
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93671
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85112
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74751
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75792
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55817
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40858
Possible cure? TheTexan has some advice.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2131340&postcount=3660
Here's the link to the video -
https://youtu.be/3ydTXkLlY6c
What else can be done. Come on! This Gremlin things is beginning to blow!
Obiwanbonjovi has a mod in mind if you are good at welding and such...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254143
"The bolt carrier has a small tab welded on left side underneath. This is brilliant most semi auto designs do not have this and can have problems with striker following due to an inherent design flaw with auto sear missing. The problem is caused by disconnector timing. On rearward travel carrier hits disconnector and disconnects trigger from sear then continues rearward. After it disconnects the striker rides over sear and can cause a re-connect as carrier is no longer pushing disconnector down. The carrier will disconnect trigger again on the way forward but not until the striker has already crossed sear. This can cause the sear to remain released as carrier continues forward and the striker will follow. This problem is non existent on f/a versions as the autosear will prevent striker from following until bolt is closed and the carrier will disconnect semi auto sear again on way forward. The Czech produced rifles being imported to United States have addressed this problem with their welded tab. The tab keeps disconnector down through rearward travel preventing the possibility of a reconnect."
INSPECT THE STRIKER
http://www.vimeo.com/13644002
What is that weird grey finish on the rifle? Any other finishes?
Lacquer paint I presume. Some people blast them and refinish them with Armacoat, Duracoat, etc.
Heavy Dark says use Krylon flat back from Canadian Tire. “I have had reasonable good luck with krylon. Sand down the stock first, clean thoroughly, and then use a good primer. Finish up with a satin finish clearcoat.”
Some say use bed liner on stocks. Some have tried it on the metal, but I dunno.
Mysticplayer: “Clean the surface well with a strong degreaser. I usually just give a spray with brake cleaner and wipe dry. THEN scuff up surface with 120grit, spray and enjoy. If you scuff without degreasing, surface oils will 'leak' out in the heat and the paint will peel or bubble.”
j_sublime49: “I scuffed it with medium grit sandpaper, then primed it with krylon, then a few coats of bedliner. Worked well on a couple stocks so far...”
Yodave: “I scratched er up good with 80 grit sandpaper, don't worry about the scratches as the bedliner is textured and with three good even coats it leaves a nice texture.”
OC-3: “Sanded mine with 120 grit and removed all the seam marks. Then degreased with brake cleaner. One regular coat; let dry and sand to smooth out imperfections. After that, "light" coats and lots of them (6+). Since the VZ stock is essentially fiberglass, it takes very well to bedliner.”
How do I use a stripper clip?
Where do you find webbing?
Marstar has a good set,
http://www.marstar.ca/ac-nylon/mag-harness.shtm
But the cheap VC chest webbing works fine too.
What are all these things in the cleaning kit for?
(Someone take a picture of the kit for me).
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=685
The barrel shaped thing with inner threads is the blank firing device. Don't install this and use live ammunition. Blanks have no bullet you see. The cleaning rod screws together but is too short for the longer 858/59Ls. Get a commercial cleaning kit, or do as Norseman does, add some segments of a Kleenbore set (same threads) so it gets longer.
You will also see on the preceeding picture (at the bottom) front sight elevation tool, punch broken case remover and gas vent scraper. These are usually sold under AK or SKS tools if you are looking for them.
How do you clean this thing?
There are people who claim you should carry a bottle of Windex (ammonia) to spray the rifle down after use, and before a formal cleaning. It kills the corrosive primer salts, they say. Others use the old soap and boiling water. In any case, the chances are that your 58 will come packed in grease, and the whole thing needs a good cleaning.
How soon do I have to clean it?
According to RobertMcC, you should be cleaning your guns all day, everyday. “You call this a clean rifle, soldier?! On your face and give me 20 scumbag!!!” But seriously, it depends. Remember that chrome bore? That helps, but it is no excuse for not cleaning the rifle.
momentalne anonymny is from the Czech Republic so he knows.
“Hard chromed bore also needs to be cleaned.!!! Especially when surplus corrosive former Czechoslovak ammo is used.”
Otherwise, watch that copper jacketed ammo turn your rifle Parliament green.
OH CRAP! There is an empty case stuck in the chamber! What can I do?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460304
How do you strip the bolt?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127774
WARNING! Do not try to take the recoil spring assembly apart or you will loose skin. Then it hard to put back together. But if you are whacked enough to try it...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189025
What about lubrication?
It has been found that lubrication is needed to keep the 58 running smooth. Otherwise, it becomes harder to ####. Pick your favorite commercial gun lube.
The magazine release is puny. Are there any larger versions out there?
Yes. Dlask makes them and Palinak sells them.
http://www.dlaskarms.com/RifleParts/VZmag1.jpg
How do I remove that Frign butt stock!? It won’t budge! Arrrhhhgggg!
"There are no wimps in Deck's Dojo!"
First, don’t smash it. Some people use a long screwdriver and put a pipe wrench on it. Others use a long tire iron.
HPL: “Lee Valley sells a giant screwdriver that works well for stock screws. It's also good because the shaft of the screwdriver is square instead of round so you can put a wrench on it for extra torque.”
Powerwagon: “Go to princess auto and buy an easy-out kit. $20 and works perfectly, without any damage to anything.”
Gramreaper: I considered the impact idea; BTW it would probably work great. The butt plate screw was a b!tch to remove; I thought this was the only screw. I almost burst a nut trying to remove it; for the record, it allows the removal of the rear sling attachment as well as access to the main "stocksucker" bolt. This I finally removed with a Chev tire iron and vise grips after filing it just right. The trick (after getting the plate off) is to make sure your alignment is correct. If you hold the tool you choose to use up against the top of the inner but stock, you will have the proper torque power. If you are off, you will strip the bolt head or tool.
I took the advice of heating the inner receiver area, it took some time, but in the end I feel the heat helped and filing the tire iron just right made the big difference. Ultimately I found that the proper angle was most important to the operation. Make sure the tool stays seated so it doesn’t strip the bolt head.
shiftybullet: I put my CZ858 in a vise (wrapped in a rag). I took a ratchet with a 8'' extention, a socket that fit the right size EZ Out. Tapped the extention attatched to the EZ out into the hole in the screw and then simply turned to the left. EZ as pie.
Deckard made a tool:
mp5k suggested this...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1317279&postcount=1
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145278
UPDATE!
AlbertaGunslinger added something novel:
"That the ugly butt stock can be taken off quite easily with the bayonet. Just remove the butt plate and put the point of the bayonet into the center of the stock screw with the blade in line with the screwdriver slot and give it a good twist and it will loosen right up, then just a few more easy turns of the bayonet and it will come right out."
What if someone Loctited a stock in place?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2702507&postcount=14
VIDEO OF STOCK REMOVAL and adding pimp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoru3DckWMk&NR=1&feature=fvwp
When the magazine is empty, the bolt stays open. Why?
The tab at the rear of the follower activates a device. To load again, insert a fresh magazine and pull the bolt back a bit.
More on Loading and the Safety Switch
Palinak adds that it doesn't need to be on safe to load. If you pull on the charging handle with a inserted empty magazine then the bolt will lock in open position no mater what position the safety is in. If there is a round in the mag and the mag is inserted into the rifle, the magazine follower which has a latch on the back of the magazine is depressed and doesn’t push on the bolt open pin therefore the bolt can move freely and nothing prevents chambering a round whatever position the safety switch is in. All the safety switch does is disconnect the trigger. If there is no magazine inserted then the rifle can be charged no matter what position the safety switch is in.
Will AK magazines fit?
Not a chance.
Where do people get ammo?
Canada Ammo and Marstar mostly.
http://www.canadaammo.com/
http://www.marstar.ca
Make sure you open the case before you get to the range. It opens sardine style, but is really tough.
HOW TO OPEN THE CAN...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=831243&postcount=1
What kind of accuracy are people getting?
Tudenom: “I took my Russian SKS and my CZ 858 to the range yesterday and must say accuracy wise they are no different. Both will shoot 3"-4" at 100 yards off a crappy rest, open sights, with norinco silver box.”
Can you hunt with a 58?
Check with your local regulations. But it has been done, says D_:
Palanak's Drag'd 58 took this fine buck...
Does it come in other calibers?
No, except one version build in 9mm in small numbers.
A few were made in 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO in the late 1960s. By 1975, a bullpup version emerged, but went nowhere.
What are those red stocks made of?
They take wood chips in mix it with a resin. Some people Duracoat them black, and others have changed them for wood from Wolverine.
What are the magazines made of?
Thin aluminum and according to KevinB, they are not that robust in combat. But they lock the action open when empty, which the AK can’t.
The rifle kicks like a bronco. What can be done?
Marstar or NEAs brakes are encouraged.
Marstar:
This highly efficient muzzle break is based on a design consisting of three baffles and six side-ports. Muzzle rise is almost entirely eliminated by this efficient design. Because the rifle moves rearward less, the shooter has little to compensate for. There are no top ports in order to prevent flash in the line of sight and no bottom ports to prevent the dust print when shooting in prone position.
The slant brake looks AK cool, but does very little.
Beergut: “Well, finally got to shoot it with my new brake on my 858, let’s just say don’t bother with it. it increases recoil and it still jumps around like it doesn’t have one at all, I recommend to get a full sized muzzle brake, i heard good things about them. all this brake is good for is looking cool. Disappointed, yes, but I still like the looks of it.”
By contrast, others love the slant design. A great developer of 58 parts is Dlask Arms. They have compensators, brakes, flash eliminators, CAR stock adaptors and extended magazine releases.
Does AK-47 furniture fit on the VZ?
No, but a wooden AK butt stock can be be adapted to fit (Ljungman did it). The pistol grips can fit with minor fitting. You can get an adaptor through Palinak to fit an AR-15 stock on your 58.
My folding stock is extremely hard to fold/unfold. The little button will only depress with lots of effort and even then only when it feels like it. The center piece of the button looks partially unscrewed (a thread and a 1/2 showing), could this be the problem? No luck trying to tighten that screw in, I'm assuming its a hex head but its stripped round.
Kyle says, “Mine was troublesome when I got it too... I wound up filing the end of the foldable piece down a little at a time until it functioned correctly.”
How do you tighten a wobbly folding stock?
No folder here has wobble, but its rigidness is somewhat related to how tight you turn that mounting bolt, barring wear on the mechanism.
Anyone know how to get the lower front handguard holder off?
Punch out the little pin at the rear of the handguard. Pull the unit down and to the rear.
BC Tactical adds:
http://youtu.be/sviffx-iTSY
Some make their own pistol grips since the one that comes with it is too small.
How do I get the plastic off the upper handguard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Apparently there are 2 variations from what Ive heard, I haven't seen the one you speak of yet though.
The cocking handle is on the right. Can it be fitted to the left?
Yes, with custom welding.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121963
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141102
Can the VZ be used in shooting sports?
Stormbringer and Silentguy think so, and so does Pops. Short answer - YES.
Are there any USA versions out there?
Yes, http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/ has one, but it seems to be out of production. Retail is $1200 or so. There is also a single-stack version.
How do you adjust the front sight?
There is a tool, but some buy an SKS adjustment tool as well.
Throttle monkey1: “I use an SKS front sight adjustment tool. if you're shooting to the left, move the front sight to the left.”
JohnC: “Make sure if you get an adjustment tool that you get one that's wide enough. some of the SKS tools like the B-square are too narrow for an AK/858. The one Marstar sells works well.”
How do I reassemble the recoil spring assembly if I needlessly took it apart?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189025
Scope Mounting
Some people side mounted to get a scope.
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/
http://www.posp.ru/
Or get a long eye relief scope for
http://www.scoutscopes.com/ which is sold through Marstar.
NEA is an innovative Canadian company. Deckard's vote is with this company.
Curtton School of Installing a Scout Mount:
If you bought a scout mount from marstar or wolverine , the box is marked for VZ but the instruction sheet inside are for a SKS, altho the actual installation of the mount on a CZ858 and the SKS are the same , the removal of the rear sight ladder are slightly different and it has cause some difficulties . hopefully some day (maybe it have already) the instruction sheet will be corrected.
1. do your safety check.
2. secure your rifle on a vise , if no vise then have another person hold the rifle firmly but do not have their hands near the rear sight.
3. i prefer to use a sharp tool with a handle but you may use the "L" shape front sight adjusting tool that comes in the cleaning kit.
4. place the tool in the gap which is in front of the ladder , press in hard to depress the leaf spring below the ladder and with the other hand push down on the ladder and slide it toward the rear.
there is another technique to removing the ladder, when the tool is in the gap , use the sharp tool as a lever and push down and lever it towards the rear , the ladder should pop out , if using this technique then i would suggest you keep your other hand away from the rear sight cos the tool tend to slip.
5. do not remove the leaf spring , it should be in place when installing the scout mount.
6. heres a pic just to illustrate what it looks like without the spring in place , note how the ladder are held in place.
7. pic of the scout mount on the rifle.
8. should you want to remove the scout mount and reinstall the ladder then the procedure are reverse .
helpful hints. you may want to scrape the paint off where the screws are in contact with the rear sight block, as for you would want a metal to metal contact and not have paint in between, also its a good idea to secure the screws with loctite , once you are zeroed in.[/QUOTE]
But, if you use that mount, it makes it a pain to clean it rifle. Is there a simple mod to keep the mount on? ESQ Scout Mod:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1614401&postcount=2682
Cheap long eye relief scopes (and red dot sights) can be bought from: http://www.futong.com/index.html
I need Red Dot sighting options. What’s out there? What kind of rails support these sights?
http://www.oktarget.cz/
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b87/telefonino/mount and OKO/fotkyms003-male-l.jpg
http://www.marstar.ca/ac-optics/images/SC-SKS1B-450px.jpg
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=8&do=3&mcid=1&scid=12&pid=142
http://www.armoria.fi/uploaded/punapiste.JPG?PHPSESSID=bdbe42e5f90440e24099cacd12cf21c7
B&T makes a crazy expensive one too.
B.C. Tactical's rail is impressive. It has Deck's vote.
Where do I get parts to modify my 58?
www.marstar.ca
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/
NorthEastern Arms - www.northeasternarms.com
Neit Arms - http://arms.neitdesigns.com/
General gun parts:
http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=1300z58&MC
http://www.zbrane.cz/Montaze-typu-we...tegorie-7.html
http://www.zbrane.cz/Doplnky-pro-SA-...tegorie-8.html
VZ-58 MODIFICATION HALL OF FAME
Curtton (March 2008)
Details:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225878
Dmitri (July 2010)
The Curtton Legend again (Feb 2011): Wood over folder (did a plastic version too).
Emilio! (emilio613) Great cammo job.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5014390&postcount=1
SAFETY WARNING - Don't forget to inspect the locking piece for any sign of cracking.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266003
Any now some random final thoughts...
How is the 58 for ladies?
Kind of goes against the white male stereotype Libs would have us believe, eh?
Wisdom of the Users
Powerwagon says if you fire the rifle without the top handguard, the rod pops out.
Tree Mugger
“I've seen the ‘short stroking’ problem caused by not holding the rifle firmly into the shoulder and rocking with the recoil rather than having a firm stance.”
TIDBITS:
-The bipod and bayonet go on from the rear, then slide forward.
-A user reported case separations using American Eagle ammo and everyone said use surplus ammo instead.
-Palinak sells an AK bottom folding stock with adaptor. You can’t fold or unfold the stock with the magazine in the rifle.
-Czech surplus ammo is very corrosive.
-Milarm had the cheapest 58 for a short time for $375.
-People from Czech Republic to Afghanistan decorate their 58s with children’s stickers. There are photos to prove it.
-The VC sniper in Full Metal Jacket used a 58, and Nic Cage was actually selling CZs, not AKs, in “the Ukraine” in Lord of War. Behind Enemy Lines is another.
-Norseman thought 35,000 views in the VZ-58s and more thread was a record.
-Speckfire is most likely to find odd and cool combat pictures of 58s.
-Karate beats 58 every time.
-Slovak photographers cannot take enough pictures of this government official. They love him long time:
Points to ponder...
Who lives this philosophy?
Palinak, of course.
Who is the most mysterious VZ-58 and more thread subscriber? momentalne anonymny, followed by smithsen.
Who was the most enthusiastic thread subscribers only to get banned? Norcyaddict762 and Flobalob.
Likelihood they are still here? 100%
Who is most likely to have used a 58 in combat? KevinB.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Afghan Take II/CarCrew.jpg
Most likely to not tolerate discussion about 58s in video games? KevinB.
Which 58 part do most people want? Military folding stock.
What is the muzzle thread? 14x1 rh. AK brakes are left hand.
Most likely to get snakey over a 58 with carbon and rust? RobertMcC
Who is the Lord of Reload? FNG762.
Who is most likely to manufacture a 58 part like a scope mount or muzzle brake from scratch and not screw it up? Kasat.
Who are the most loved 58 personalities?
And just because...
Note: Many Photos Deleted, So Start At Page 100 Or So for photos.
Devoted to this unique sporting target hunting rifle
“If Deckard and the others want to make a detailed FAQ - I will sticky it.”
KevinB Thanks for the sticky gents!
The 58's designer was Jiří Čermák.
The carbine began under the project codename "KOŠTĚ", or "Broom", in English. Development began in January of 1956, and the rifle was adopted for service only 2 years later, in 1958.
CZ=Česká zbrojovka a.s., Uherský Brod
VZ=vzor = model, type, pattern.
They are the same thing as sa vz.58 and sa.58 for that matter, as sa means samopal which means submachine gun. The Canadian carbine is not a samopal.
Let’s start by stating that the VZ-58 in all its shapes and forms is NOT a variant of the AK-47/AKM rifle whatsoever. No parts interchange. The 58 is the bottom one…
Read this to see that no aspect of the VZ is interchangeable with the AK. Mechanically, it is entirely different.
http://50ae.net/VZ-vs-AK/
Sa vz. 58 Military Technical Specifications
Caliber 7.62 x 39 mm
Produced 1959–1984
Number built Approx. 920,000
Muzzle velocity 771 yds/s
Effective range - against individual targets up to 655 yds
Effective range - against group targets up to 875 yds
Maximum range 3,060 yds
Practical rate of fire 40 shots/min.
Rifle weight without magazine 6.61 lbs
Weight of an empty magazine 0.42 lbs
Weight of a full magazine 1.50 lbs
Rifle length 33.3 in
Rifle width 2.32 in
Rifle height without magazine 6.69 in
Rifle height with magazine 9.96 in
Barrel length 15.14 in
Number of grooves inem the barrel 4
Length of the rifling 9.45 in
Trigger pull 5.51 - 5.95 lbs (24.5 - 26.5 N)
Sights Open-type iron sights with sliding
rear tangent and shrouded front post
353 mm (13.9 in) sight radius
There are several Vzor 58 type semi-automatic carbines on the market. They come from different factories within the Czech or Slovak Republics. Means of manufacturing varies. The model known as the VZ-58S (CZH 2003 Sport) is restricted and has proven to be very reliable. The CZ-858 is made by another source and some users on this forum have reported reliability problems having to do with the striker system. These have been admirably rectified by the vendor as they crop up. Some users perform home gunsmithing with replacement parts to solve the problem.
The striker problem, according to slicknick:
“The striker will not catch on the sear. This allows the striker to travel foreward with the rest of the bolt/carrier and leaves the weapon uncocked after the action has cycled.”
Some points worth considering:
VZ-58S – restricted, chrome bore. A semi-auto version of the rifle serving Czech and Slovak troops today.
CZ-858 – Non-restricted, non-chrome bore. So you can take this out in the back country shooting. The VZ-58S can only be used on a government approved range. The non-chrome bore, however, requires careful attention after shooting sessions to prevent rust development.
New Update:A further variant, the VZ-58L has just hit the market and sports a long barrel and chrome bore. This means less rust and the joy of taking it outside the range for shooting. It is non-restricted.
__________________________
VZ-58 - restreint et avec le chrome.
CZ-585 - non-restreint et sans chrome.
Il a été annoncé que certaines personnes 858s ont des problèmes d'opération. Le vendeur, pourtant, est rapide pour aider.
CZ-58L- Ce fusil est chromé et non-restreint. Apparemment, il est difficile de trouver.
Chez Marstar (qui vend le VZ-58 et le 58L) emploie des francophones. Quelqu'un avec une meilleure compréhension de grammaire, corrigez s'il vous plaît mes fautes.
_________________________
When you buy a 58…
You will want to fieldstrip the rifle for inspection and cleaning. But how do I fieldstrip this thing?
[youtube]cBa5yoWlGBg[/youtube]
[youtube]Q-vSb4xpQBM[/youtube]
There are some good videos out there, provided by Finns and people right here from CGN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki7PV2WdKA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUAX2wlnshA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sxjdJLkhRg
The thing to remember is clear the chamber and pull the trigger to release the dust cover.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159089
Clean that dirty zombie whore with boiling water...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bf0J6Taue4
But I can’t put it back together again! Help!
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55942
Hint: Pressing down on the sear allows the bolt assembly to go forward without coming apart.
I still need a manual, though. None came with the rifle.
http://stevespages.com/pdf/vz_58_sporter.pdf
http://stevespages.com/pdf/vz_58_military_folder.pdf
http://stevespages.com/pdf/cz58.pdf
Any internal drawings?
http://skorpion-galerie.wz.cz/Vzor58.htm
HOW DO I TAKE OUT THE TRIGGER GROUP?
1.you will noticed there is a locking plate on the right side of the interior wall.
2. use a plastic pen so you dont damage the locking plate , push down on the front of lock to disengage the trigger and sear axis pins.
3. push out the axis pins from left to right. the change lever do not come out for maintenance.
4. the sear should fall out but the trigger you need to hold the trigger from underneath , move up alittle and till it forward and from the top with the other hand also moves it forward so the sear disconnect clears the change lever . trigger spring should also drop out but the sear main spring do not.
5. reassembling is exactly the reverse , however its a little tricky putting the trigger spring back , what i do is once the trigger is in place , i use a needle nose plier to place the trigger spring in the slot and then put the axis pin in before installing the sear.
6. push the back end of the locking plate down to lock in the pins, should you forget , dont worry , it will prevent you from sliding the carrier in.
The infamous 858 bug or “Gremlin”:
a.k.a. Le diablotin infâme
The darn thing is not working!
There has been some reports of some rifles not working. The vast majority work totally well all the time. Finicky problems have occurred in all models along the way, and in every instance, the vendors have stepped up and taken action. This is what I call customer service. I have no problem owning any of the models, or recommending any dealer. Even if you are passed a dud from another gun owner, the dealers have typically said: “Send it to me, and I’ll sort it out.” That is A-OK in my books. Selling another gun owner a dud means you need a good nutting though, IMHO.
Problem: Gun fires a few rounds (anywhere from 2-20) then I pull the trigger and nothing. No click.
Watch G37's video:
Eject the shell and find what appears to be a weak primer hit...but when I pulled the trigger there was no click. Re-insert cartridge and bang off she goes.
What appears to me to be happening is the Hammer (if that is what it is called) is not catching on the ummm hammer catch. thus when the bolt goes forward momentum is causing the slight primer hit.
When I remove the dust cover/springs and cycle the bolt by hand everything appears to function as it should with plenty of interference between the hammer and hammer catch nothing appears to be misaligned and none of the parts appear to be worn.
If the weak hammer hits were just a touch more I am pretty sure it would go FA or a nice little 2-3 round burst. Although I would love to shoot a FA gun I would rather it be my choice not my guns.
This gun has less than 500 rounds through it. Any ideas guys? Anyone had this problem?
WATCH THIS VIDEO FIRST! Thanks to smartbomb for this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEN-mp6sRbI
Everyone watch that all the way through.[/QUOTE]
The Hackmaster replies:
“I have this problem with mine and I hear it is a very common one to have in this gun. Whats happening (in mine anyway) is the trigger is somehow being pulled right after the bolt begins its foreward travel after ejecting the spent round. You can test this by cycling the action by hand and pulling the trigger when the bolt is about an inch away from seating. What happens then is the firing rod (if thats its name) follows the bolt forewards and hits the shell, but without enough momentum to cause a bump fire. All you need to do to prevent this is practice your shot follow through.”
Jeagermeister adds,
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127851
“The striker is not caught by the sear during the cycle, therefore the striker
travels forward with the bolt and fails to ####. There are two possibilities
that cause this failure.
1. Sear does not positively engage striker. This can be due to poor striker/sear mating, either because of weak spring pressure and/or the surface
area between sear and striker is at a somewhat less then optimum angle.
Carefully file/hone the sear to achieve a square/parallel engagement area on the sear 'nose'.
2. Disconnector/sear trip fail to contact enough with the bolt assembly to disconnect/reset trigger. This is most likely to be the problem. In these mass
produce, inexpensive guns the +/- tolerances on the parts are somewhat greater. It can and has happended that when all the trigger and bolt parts
are on the minus side of their tolerance specs they fail to do their job.
Remove cover and springs from receiver (gun unloaded of course), work
bolt assembly back and forth while holding down the trigger (just like it would during a cycle) watch the the bolt carrier assembly contact and push down
the disconnector. Does it do it positvely or just half-heartedly, especially when one lifts up on the bolt carrier assembly while it travels in the
receiver rail.
I had to install a number of different Action/trigger parts at times to find some
that were on the plus side of their tolerance specs to make some guns work
properly. Best bet is to invest in a spare parts kit ($95) and switch out
the required number of parts to make the gun work.
This is just my opinion, so no guarantee's.”
Beergut:
“I had the same problem with my 858, you will need a wolverine parts kit to fix or if your really good with a welder and a file you can fix it yourself. I don’t know all the technical names for it but there is a pin that sticks straight up and is rounded on the top. the clearance between the bolt and this pin is too great causing the part that catches the striker not to reset so its doesn’t catch it. that pin just needs to be a bit longer for everything to work again.
This problem will get worse after a while.
I used silver solder to lengthen it then files it round just so i could go shooting the weekend before my parts kit got here. Worked perfect for about 200 rounds.”
Moike: "One of the problems with these guns is when the angle block was welded in to prevent full auto parts from being installed, the spring that lays on the bottom of the receiver was sometimes affected. Or sometimes the spring just takes a set. Keep in mind that most of these parts are sometimes over 40 years old. The simplest thing to do is strip the rifle. On the inside of the right receiver wall, push down the front of the sheet metal retaining clip (it is riveted to the receiver wall). This will allow you to move the pin holding the sear in place, there by giving you access to the sear spring. Stretch the spring upwards so it rests about ¼ inch higher than it now rests. Reassemble and test fire. If your problem is not cured, stretch the spring a little more. I would definitely try this before spending money on parts or welding anything. I have encountered similar problems with these rifles before and this little “trick” has worked every time I tried it. My $0.02."
Info on vz58 cz858 gremlin how to fix (by obiwanbonjovi)
"From what I have read all over this page it seems the general belief is that the gremlin is caused by the bolt carrier failing to disconnect the trigger. Until today that was my understanding. Wrong, the carriers seem to disconnect trigger every time. The problem is caused by the striker re-connecting trigger, by forcing the sear down too far during its rearward travel. The fix: more overtravel . How you give it more overtravel depends on why its happening, rifles that have the gremlin recurring often usually need the overtravel stop filed, if gremlin occurs only when very lightly feathering trigger a stiffer sear spring, or block under sear spring will increase trigger weight slightly and will naturally cause you to pull trigger farther after hammer falls. A stiffer sear spring will also slow the sears downward travel when hammer rides over it, lessening the chance of a reconnect."
peirecce says to fix it you must...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2397511&postcount=1
US pattern G37-made bolt mod fixes the problem. Why the factory can't sort it out is a matter of concern. It's not like they haven't heard of it.
The G37 mod tested:
http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/G37G37/Gun Stuff/?action=view¤t=Gremlin.flv
Source:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289003
More links for the Gremlin:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2616964&postcount=1
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169256
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160900
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127851
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104031
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93671
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85112
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74751
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75792
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55817
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40858
Possible cure? TheTexan has some advice.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2131340&postcount=3660
Here's the link to the video -
https://youtu.be/3ydTXkLlY6c
What else can be done. Come on! This Gremlin things is beginning to blow!
Obiwanbonjovi has a mod in mind if you are good at welding and such...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254143
"The bolt carrier has a small tab welded on left side underneath. This is brilliant most semi auto designs do not have this and can have problems with striker following due to an inherent design flaw with auto sear missing. The problem is caused by disconnector timing. On rearward travel carrier hits disconnector and disconnects trigger from sear then continues rearward. After it disconnects the striker rides over sear and can cause a re-connect as carrier is no longer pushing disconnector down. The carrier will disconnect trigger again on the way forward but not until the striker has already crossed sear. This can cause the sear to remain released as carrier continues forward and the striker will follow. This problem is non existent on f/a versions as the autosear will prevent striker from following until bolt is closed and the carrier will disconnect semi auto sear again on way forward. The Czech produced rifles being imported to United States have addressed this problem with their welded tab. The tab keeps disconnector down through rearward travel preventing the possibility of a reconnect."
INSPECT THE STRIKER
http://www.vimeo.com/13644002
What is that weird grey finish on the rifle? Any other finishes?
Lacquer paint I presume. Some people blast them and refinish them with Armacoat, Duracoat, etc.
Heavy Dark says use Krylon flat back from Canadian Tire. “I have had reasonable good luck with krylon. Sand down the stock first, clean thoroughly, and then use a good primer. Finish up with a satin finish clearcoat.”
Some say use bed liner on stocks. Some have tried it on the metal, but I dunno.
Mysticplayer: “Clean the surface well with a strong degreaser. I usually just give a spray with brake cleaner and wipe dry. THEN scuff up surface with 120grit, spray and enjoy. If you scuff without degreasing, surface oils will 'leak' out in the heat and the paint will peel or bubble.”
j_sublime49: “I scuffed it with medium grit sandpaper, then primed it with krylon, then a few coats of bedliner. Worked well on a couple stocks so far...”
Yodave: “I scratched er up good with 80 grit sandpaper, don't worry about the scratches as the bedliner is textured and with three good even coats it leaves a nice texture.”
OC-3: “Sanded mine with 120 grit and removed all the seam marks. Then degreased with brake cleaner. One regular coat; let dry and sand to smooth out imperfections. After that, "light" coats and lots of them (6+). Since the VZ stock is essentially fiberglass, it takes very well to bedliner.”
How do I use a stripper clip?
Where do you find webbing?
Marstar has a good set,
http://www.marstar.ca/ac-nylon/mag-harness.shtm
But the cheap VC chest webbing works fine too.
What are all these things in the cleaning kit for?
(Someone take a picture of the kit for me).
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=685
The barrel shaped thing with inner threads is the blank firing device. Don't install this and use live ammunition. Blanks have no bullet you see. The cleaning rod screws together but is too short for the longer 858/59Ls. Get a commercial cleaning kit, or do as Norseman does, add some segments of a Kleenbore set (same threads) so it gets longer.
You will also see on the preceeding picture (at the bottom) front sight elevation tool, punch broken case remover and gas vent scraper. These are usually sold under AK or SKS tools if you are looking for them.
How do you clean this thing?
There are people who claim you should carry a bottle of Windex (ammonia) to spray the rifle down after use, and before a formal cleaning. It kills the corrosive primer salts, they say. Others use the old soap and boiling water. In any case, the chances are that your 58 will come packed in grease, and the whole thing needs a good cleaning.
How soon do I have to clean it?
According to RobertMcC, you should be cleaning your guns all day, everyday. “You call this a clean rifle, soldier?! On your face and give me 20 scumbag!!!” But seriously, it depends. Remember that chrome bore? That helps, but it is no excuse for not cleaning the rifle.
momentalne anonymny is from the Czech Republic so he knows.
“Hard chromed bore also needs to be cleaned.!!! Especially when surplus corrosive former Czechoslovak ammo is used.”
Otherwise, watch that copper jacketed ammo turn your rifle Parliament green.
OH CRAP! There is an empty case stuck in the chamber! What can I do?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460304
How do you strip the bolt?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127774
WARNING! Do not try to take the recoil spring assembly apart or you will loose skin. Then it hard to put back together. But if you are whacked enough to try it...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189025
What about lubrication?
It has been found that lubrication is needed to keep the 58 running smooth. Otherwise, it becomes harder to ####. Pick your favorite commercial gun lube.
The magazine release is puny. Are there any larger versions out there?
Yes. Dlask makes them and Palinak sells them.
http://www.dlaskarms.com/RifleParts/VZmag1.jpg
How do I remove that Frign butt stock!? It won’t budge! Arrrhhhgggg!
First, don’t smash it. Some people use a long screwdriver and put a pipe wrench on it. Others use a long tire iron.
HPL: “Lee Valley sells a giant screwdriver that works well for stock screws. It's also good because the shaft of the screwdriver is square instead of round so you can put a wrench on it for extra torque.”
Powerwagon: “Go to princess auto and buy an easy-out kit. $20 and works perfectly, without any damage to anything.”
Gramreaper: I considered the impact idea; BTW it would probably work great. The butt plate screw was a b!tch to remove; I thought this was the only screw. I almost burst a nut trying to remove it; for the record, it allows the removal of the rear sling attachment as well as access to the main "stocksucker" bolt. This I finally removed with a Chev tire iron and vise grips after filing it just right. The trick (after getting the plate off) is to make sure your alignment is correct. If you hold the tool you choose to use up against the top of the inner but stock, you will have the proper torque power. If you are off, you will strip the bolt head or tool.
I took the advice of heating the inner receiver area, it took some time, but in the end I feel the heat helped and filing the tire iron just right made the big difference. Ultimately I found that the proper angle was most important to the operation. Make sure the tool stays seated so it doesn’t strip the bolt head.
shiftybullet: I put my CZ858 in a vise (wrapped in a rag). I took a ratchet with a 8'' extention, a socket that fit the right size EZ Out. Tapped the extention attatched to the EZ out into the hole in the screw and then simply turned to the left. EZ as pie.
Deckard made a tool:
mp5k suggested this...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1317279&postcount=1
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145278
UPDATE!
AlbertaGunslinger added something novel:
"That the ugly butt stock can be taken off quite easily with the bayonet. Just remove the butt plate and put the point of the bayonet into the center of the stock screw with the blade in line with the screwdriver slot and give it a good twist and it will loosen right up, then just a few more easy turns of the bayonet and it will come right out."
What if someone Loctited a stock in place?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2702507&postcount=14
VIDEO OF STOCK REMOVAL and adding pimp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoru3DckWMk&NR=1&feature=fvwp
When the magazine is empty, the bolt stays open. Why?
The tab at the rear of the follower activates a device. To load again, insert a fresh magazine and pull the bolt back a bit.
More on Loading and the Safety Switch
Palinak adds that it doesn't need to be on safe to load. If you pull on the charging handle with a inserted empty magazine then the bolt will lock in open position no mater what position the safety is in. If there is a round in the mag and the mag is inserted into the rifle, the magazine follower which has a latch on the back of the magazine is depressed and doesn’t push on the bolt open pin therefore the bolt can move freely and nothing prevents chambering a round whatever position the safety switch is in. All the safety switch does is disconnect the trigger. If there is no magazine inserted then the rifle can be charged no matter what position the safety switch is in.
Will AK magazines fit?
Not a chance.
Where do people get ammo?
Canada Ammo and Marstar mostly.
http://www.canadaammo.com/
http://www.marstar.ca
Make sure you open the case before you get to the range. It opens sardine style, but is really tough.
HOW TO OPEN THE CAN...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=831243&postcount=1
What kind of accuracy are people getting?
Tudenom: “I took my Russian SKS and my CZ 858 to the range yesterday and must say accuracy wise they are no different. Both will shoot 3"-4" at 100 yards off a crappy rest, open sights, with norinco silver box.”
Can you hunt with a 58?
Check with your local regulations. But it has been done, says D_:
Palanak's Drag'd 58 took this fine buck...
Does it come in other calibers?
No, except one version build in 9mm in small numbers.
A few were made in 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO in the late 1960s. By 1975, a bullpup version emerged, but went nowhere.
What are those red stocks made of?
They take wood chips in mix it with a resin. Some people Duracoat them black, and others have changed them for wood from Wolverine.
What are the magazines made of?
Thin aluminum and according to KevinB, they are not that robust in combat. But they lock the action open when empty, which the AK can’t.
The rifle kicks like a bronco. What can be done?
Marstar or NEAs brakes are encouraged.
Marstar:
This highly efficient muzzle break is based on a design consisting of three baffles and six side-ports. Muzzle rise is almost entirely eliminated by this efficient design. Because the rifle moves rearward less, the shooter has little to compensate for. There are no top ports in order to prevent flash in the line of sight and no bottom ports to prevent the dust print when shooting in prone position.
The slant brake looks AK cool, but does very little.
Beergut: “Well, finally got to shoot it with my new brake on my 858, let’s just say don’t bother with it. it increases recoil and it still jumps around like it doesn’t have one at all, I recommend to get a full sized muzzle brake, i heard good things about them. all this brake is good for is looking cool. Disappointed, yes, but I still like the looks of it.”
By contrast, others love the slant design. A great developer of 58 parts is Dlask Arms. They have compensators, brakes, flash eliminators, CAR stock adaptors and extended magazine releases.
Does AK-47 furniture fit on the VZ?
No, but a wooden AK butt stock can be be adapted to fit (Ljungman did it). The pistol grips can fit with minor fitting. You can get an adaptor through Palinak to fit an AR-15 stock on your 58.
My folding stock is extremely hard to fold/unfold. The little button will only depress with lots of effort and even then only when it feels like it. The center piece of the button looks partially unscrewed (a thread and a 1/2 showing), could this be the problem? No luck trying to tighten that screw in, I'm assuming its a hex head but its stripped round.
Kyle says, “Mine was troublesome when I got it too... I wound up filing the end of the foldable piece down a little at a time until it functioned correctly.”
How do you tighten a wobbly folding stock?
No folder here has wobble, but its rigidness is somewhat related to how tight you turn that mounting bolt, barring wear on the mechanism.
Anyone know how to get the lower front handguard holder off?
Punch out the little pin at the rear of the handguard. Pull the unit down and to the rear.
BC Tactical adds:
http://youtu.be/sviffx-iTSY
Some make their own pistol grips since the one that comes with it is too small.
How do I get the plastic off the upper handguard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Apparently there are 2 variations from what Ive heard, I haven't seen the one you speak of yet though.
__________________
The cocking handle is on the right. Can it be fitted to the left?
Yes, with custom welding.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121963
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141102
Can the VZ be used in shooting sports?
Stormbringer and Silentguy think so, and so does Pops. Short answer - YES.
Are there any USA versions out there?
Yes, http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/ has one, but it seems to be out of production. Retail is $1200 or so. There is also a single-stack version.
How do you adjust the front sight?
There is a tool, but some buy an SKS adjustment tool as well.
Throttle monkey1: “I use an SKS front sight adjustment tool. if you're shooting to the left, move the front sight to the left.”
JohnC: “Make sure if you get an adjustment tool that you get one that's wide enough. some of the SKS tools like the B-square are too narrow for an AK/858. The one Marstar sells works well.”
How do I reassemble the recoil spring assembly if I needlessly took it apart?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189025
Scope Mounting
Some people side mounted to get a scope.
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/
http://www.posp.ru/
Or get a long eye relief scope for
http://www.scoutscopes.com/ which is sold through Marstar.
NEA is an innovative Canadian company. Deckard's vote is with this company.
Curtton School of Installing a Scout Mount:
If you bought a scout mount from marstar or wolverine , the box is marked for VZ but the instruction sheet inside are for a SKS, altho the actual installation of the mount on a CZ858 and the SKS are the same , the removal of the rear sight ladder are slightly different and it has cause some difficulties . hopefully some day (maybe it have already) the instruction sheet will be corrected.
1. do your safety check.
2. secure your rifle on a vise , if no vise then have another person hold the rifle firmly but do not have their hands near the rear sight.
3. i prefer to use a sharp tool with a handle but you may use the "L" shape front sight adjusting tool that comes in the cleaning kit.
4. place the tool in the gap which is in front of the ladder , press in hard to depress the leaf spring below the ladder and with the other hand push down on the ladder and slide it toward the rear.
there is another technique to removing the ladder, when the tool is in the gap , use the sharp tool as a lever and push down and lever it towards the rear , the ladder should pop out , if using this technique then i would suggest you keep your other hand away from the rear sight cos the tool tend to slip.
5. do not remove the leaf spring , it should be in place when installing the scout mount.
6. heres a pic just to illustrate what it looks like without the spring in place , note how the ladder are held in place.
7. pic of the scout mount on the rifle.
8. should you want to remove the scout mount and reinstall the ladder then the procedure are reverse .
helpful hints. you may want to scrape the paint off where the screws are in contact with the rear sight block, as for you would want a metal to metal contact and not have paint in between, also its a good idea to secure the screws with loctite , once you are zeroed in.[/QUOTE]
But, if you use that mount, it makes it a pain to clean it rifle. Is there a simple mod to keep the mount on? ESQ Scout Mod:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1614401&postcount=2682
Cheap long eye relief scopes (and red dot sights) can be bought from: http://www.futong.com/index.html
I need Red Dot sighting options. What’s out there? What kind of rails support these sights?
http://www.oktarget.cz/
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b87/telefonino/mount and OKO/fotkyms003-male-l.jpg
http://www.marstar.ca/ac-optics/images/SC-SKS1B-450px.jpg
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=8&do=3&mcid=1&scid=12&pid=142
http://www.armoria.fi/uploaded/punapiste.JPG?PHPSESSID=bdbe42e5f90440e24099cacd12cf21c7
B&T makes a crazy expensive one too.
B.C. Tactical's rail is impressive. It has Deck's vote.
Where do I get parts to modify my 58?
www.marstar.ca
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/
NorthEastern Arms - www.northeasternarms.com
Neit Arms - http://arms.neitdesigns.com/
General gun parts:
http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=1300z58&MC
http://www.zbrane.cz/Montaze-typu-we...tegorie-7.html
http://www.zbrane.cz/Doplnky-pro-SA-...tegorie-8.html
VZ-58 MODIFICATION HALL OF FAME
Curtton (March 2008)
Details:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225878
Dmitri (July 2010)
The Curtton Legend again (Feb 2011): Wood over folder (did a plastic version too).
Emilio! (emilio613) Great cammo job.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5014390&postcount=1
SAFETY WARNING - Don't forget to inspect the locking piece for any sign of cracking.http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266003
Any now some random final thoughts...
How is the 58 for ladies?
Kind of goes against the white male stereotype Libs would have us believe, eh?
Wisdom of the Users
Powerwagon says if you fire the rifle without the top handguard, the rod pops out.
Tree Mugger
“I've seen the ‘short stroking’ problem caused by not holding the rifle firmly into the shoulder and rocking with the recoil rather than having a firm stance.”
TIDBITS:
-The bipod and bayonet go on from the rear, then slide forward.
-A user reported case separations using American Eagle ammo and everyone said use surplus ammo instead.
-Palinak sells an AK bottom folding stock with adaptor. You can’t fold or unfold the stock with the magazine in the rifle.
-Czech surplus ammo is very corrosive.
-Milarm had the cheapest 58 for a short time for $375.
-People from Czech Republic to Afghanistan decorate their 58s with children’s stickers. There are photos to prove it.
-The VC sniper in Full Metal Jacket used a 58, and Nic Cage was actually selling CZs, not AKs, in “the Ukraine” in Lord of War. Behind Enemy Lines is another.
-Norseman thought 35,000 views in the VZ-58s and more thread was a record.
-Speckfire is most likely to find odd and cool combat pictures of 58s.
-Karate beats 58 every time.
-Slovak photographers cannot take enough pictures of this government official. They love him long time:
Points to ponder...
Who lives this philosophy?
Palinak, of course.
Who is the most mysterious VZ-58 and more thread subscriber? momentalne anonymny, followed by smithsen.
Who was the most enthusiastic thread subscribers only to get banned? Norcyaddict762 and Flobalob.
Likelihood they are still here? 100%
Who is most likely to have used a 58 in combat? KevinB.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Afghan Take II/CarCrew.jpg
Most likely to not tolerate discussion about 58s in video games? KevinB.
Which 58 part do most people want? Military folding stock.
What is the muzzle thread? 14x1 rh. AK brakes are left hand.
Most likely to get snakey over a 58 with carbon and rust? RobertMcC
Who is the Lord of Reload? FNG762.
Who is most likely to manufacture a 58 part like a scope mount or muzzle brake from scratch and not screw it up? Kasat.
Who are the most loved 58 personalities?
And just because...
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