VZ-58s and more...FAQs are Post 1

[Thamok]

Hitzy wrote:

So the VZ is better than the AK? Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?

A DIRECT RESPONSE TO HITZY.... THE INTERNET HERO...

Hitzy - if you can Google up some experience and less spouting off... please note that my original post said the CZ-58 is better than an AK-47... not the VZ-58 is better than an AK-47. Have you even fired an AK-47?

Never mind, you will also note that ...

I did not mention politics, economics or impressions from the internet ....

To set the record straight on my statements:

My experience of the CZ-58 comes from working with 6 Czech Mech in Bosnia in the early '90s. Have you ever held a CZ-58?

I have fired almost every variation of the AK-47 that has been produced. Have you? Actually have you even held an AK-47? Not some butchered C/A...

I have also fired at least 10,000 rounds thru a particular 6 Czech Mech Officers CZ-58, afterall the ammo that we confiscated from the FWF had to be used up somehow... btw all the men in my platoon also received the benifit of hands on training with the CZ-58. How many rounds have you fired from a CZ-58?

We also fired / tested many captured AK-47s, we also subjected them to interesting tests. Many of these tests we got from the internet ...

Our results were quite interesting... AK-47's do fail, they are not the end all be all of assualt rifles.

In hindsight, it's very much like what happened during the great war... the germans loved the .45 for the stopping power, and the GI's loved the luger for the greater mag capacity... which is better? Well you won't learn that on the internet!

Hitzy wrote:

The lock up of the VZ is one of the silliest parts of the design, every service rifle I can think of has the bolt locking directly to the reciever, this adds another seperate piece to the lockup, never a good thing.

You're kidding right? The CZ-58 locks up on the reciever... you should check the rifle before you post. Most rifles actually lock up with a 'barrel-extension' which is welded to the barrel which is mechanically fixed to the receiver. Please get your facts straight. The CZ-58 has a barrel, the barrel is attached to the receiver, the bolt locks to the reciever... everything is good.

Hitzy wrote:

The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design,

where did you get this notion? Can you explain... ?

I really am at a loss as to figure out why this is a weak design?

Do you mean it fails faster?
Do you mean it is harder to clean?
Do you mean it is harder to make?
Do you mean that it doesn't have enough tension?
Do you mean that it is harder to verify proper function?
Do you mean that the design is old and out-dated?

as well as the paperclip spring guide. Google CZ2000/Lada2000 and there is some info on that rifle.

What paperclip spring guide are you talking about?

Seriously ... as you are someone who comes down like a hammer on Newbies with dumb ideas you really should be more careful about what you say.

Hitzy wrote:

I also doubt they are cheaper to make , 50 million AK's tells me that.
They are not nearly as robust as the AK.

You answered your own question......
Hitzy wrote:

Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?

The Czech's are going with the cheaper rifle - go figure. :roll:

 

[Hitzy]

I still have no idea what you are trying to say or prove tomahawk.......... :roll:
You post one line " CZ is better than AK".....how much am I suppose to get out of that? :roll:
I guess english isn't one of your first languages as I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out what you are trying to tell me? Are you saying that in FA the CZ is more controlable than an AK? What the hell is this "better" that you are talking about, you don't make any confirmation or comparisions. I don't understand why you make a distinction between the CZ58 (who calls it that anyway?) and the VZ58's, is it a semi/FA clarification?

You're kidding right? The CZ-58 locks up on the reciever... you should check the rifle before you post. Most rifles actually lock up with a 'barrel-extension' which is welded to the barrel which is mechanically fixed to the receiver. Please get your facts straight. The CZ-58 has a barrel, the barrel is attached to the receiver, the bolt locks to the reciever... everything is good.

Mabey YOU should have a look at your rifle.....if you own one. :roll: The bolt itself, does not lock to the receiver or a barrel extension, that's what the locking wedge accomplishes. AK, AR, M1, M14, FAL, etc.etc all have direct lock up of the bolt to either the receiver or barrel extension. the VZ/CZ what ever you want to call it, is a stupid lock up design IMHO, it adds another part to the action that is unecessary, just another part to fail.

Hitzy wrote:

Quote:

The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design,



where did you get this notion? Can you explain... ?

I really am at a loss as to figure out why this is a weak design?

Do you mean it fails faster?
Do you mean it is harder to clean?
Do you mean it is harder to make?
Do you mean that it doesn't have enough tension?
Do you mean that it is harder to verify proper function?
Do you mean that the design is old and out-dated?

Leaf springs are old and out dated features on rifles. P14's/M1917's ejector/bolt stop springs broke frequently enough that they were changed to coils. Just another stuipid design feature on the VZ.

Quote:

as well as the paperclip spring guide.


What paperclip spring guide are you talking about?

Again, take your rifle apart if you own one :roll: the recoil spring guide is a flimsy piece of bent wire, really screams robust.......

You answered your own question......
Hitzy wrote:
Quote:

Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?



The Czech's are going with the cheaper rifle - go figure.

Going with a cheaper rifle that they still cannot afford to arm their army with. Cheaper, as in ease of manufacture, certainly doesn't mean lower quality or less effective. But I wouldn't expect you to think that one through....... :roll:

A DIRECT RESPONSE TO HITZY.... THE INTERNET HERO...

I have no idea why you have a hard on for me, but you really need to get over it. I certainly don't get "worked up" like you do over someone's opinion on an internet message board.
Anyway, I'm not pursueing this any further with you out of respect for GT and the board (and fear of getting the boot...... :roll: ). I do think you are confusing opinion with fact, mainly your own.

 

[Deckard]

Wow. It must be Thamok Time. :lol:

Can we get back to the photos and drop the ball snifn? You're both cool.

 

[Stevo]

Wow. It must be Thamok Time. :lol:

Can we get back to the photos and drop the ball snifn? You're both cool.

ROFLMAO, root beer shooting out my nose!

 

[Scarecrow]

So the VZ is better than the AK? Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?

Actually I heard there new rifle was the same design as the VZ58 internally.

The lock up of the VZ is one of the silliest parts of the design, every service rifle I can think of has the bolt locking directly to the reciever, this adds another seperate piece to the lockup, never a good thing. The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design, as well as the paperclip spring guide. Google CZ2000/Lada2000 and there is some info on that rifle.

I also doubt they are cheaper to make , 50 million AK's tells me that.
They are not nearly as robust as the AK.

50 million AK's is just proof of how powerfull the soviet union was at standardization of a rifle. They gave them away for FREE and sent there toolling and people to other warsaw countries so they to could produce them.

If its so much cheaper to turn out the CZ2000 then why dint they finally adopt it? Because it wasnt cheaper to produce. The czech dont have to produce rifles, cause under communism they poured thousands and thousands of these rifles out of the factory.

And My readings of the CZ2000/lada is that it is based on the same system as the VZ58. Just the difference is the increased use on stampings for the receiver and such.

You think after being the only warsaw pact country not to make AK's they where going to start now there free? :roll: :lol:

You're biased against the rifle for the simple fact Marstar gave you such a #### rifle.

 

[Norcyaddict762]

So the VZ is better than the AK? Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?

Actually I heard there new rifle was the same design as the VZ58 internally.

The lock up of the VZ is one of the silliest parts of the design, every service rifle I can think of has the bolt locking directly to the reciever, this adds another seperate piece to the lockup, never a good thing. The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design, as well as the paperclip spring guide. Google CZ2000/Lada2000 and there is some info on that rifle.

I also doubt they are cheaper to make , 50 million AK's tells me that.
They are not nearly as robust as the AK.

50 million AK's is just proof of how powerfull the soviet union was at standardization of a rifle. They gave them away for FREE and sent there toolling and people to other warsaw countries so they to could produce them.

If its so much cheaper to turn out the CZ2000 then why dint they finally adopt it? Because it wasnt cheaper to produce. The czech dont have to produce rifles, cause under communism they poured thousands and thousands of these rifles out of the factory.

And My readings of the CZ2000/lada is that it is based on the same system as the VZ58. Just the difference is the increased use on stampings for the receiver and such.

You think after being the only warsaw pact country not to make AK's they where going to start now there free? :roll: :lol:

You're biased against the rifle for the simple fact Marstar gave you such a #### rifle.

This is hilarious
Clam down children plz..


I have fired valmets, AK's and VZ58s and I will say from experience that the VZ58 IS NOT a #### rifle by any stretch. It cleans well, carrys well and shoots well. It is also extreamly easy to maintain.

 

[Thamok]

I still have no idea what you are trying to say or prove tomahawk.......... :roll:
You post one line " CZ is better than AK".....how much am I suppose to get out of that? :roll:
I guess english isn't one of your first languages as I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out what you are trying to tell me? Are you saying that in FA the CZ is more controlable than an AK? What the hell is this "better" that you are talking about, you don't make any confirmation or comparisions. I don't understand why you make a distinction between the CZ58 (who calls it that anyway?) and the VZ58's, is it a semi/FA clarification?

You're kidding right? The CZ-58 locks up on the reciever... you should check the rifle before you post. Most rifles actually lock up with a 'barrel-extension' which is welded to the barrel which is mechanically fixed to the receiver. Please get your facts straight. The CZ-58 has a barrel, the barrel is attached to the receiver, the bolt locks to the reciever... everything is good.

Mabey YOU should have a look at your rifle.....if you own one. :roll: The bolt itself, does not lock to the receiver or a barrel extension, that's what the locking wedge accomplishes. AK, AR, M1, M14, FAL, etc.etc all have direct lock up of the bolt to either the receiver or barrel extension. the VZ/CZ what ever you want to call it, is a stupid lock up design IMHO, it adds another part to the action that is unecessary, just another part to fail.

Hitzy wrote:

Quote:

The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design,



where did you get this notion? Can you explain... ?

I really am at a loss as to figure out why this is a weak design?

Do you mean it fails faster?
Do you mean it is harder to clean?
Do you mean it is harder to make?
Do you mean that it doesn't have enough tension?
Do you mean that it is harder to verify proper function?
Do you mean that the design is old and out-dated?

Leaf springs are old and out dated features on rifles. P14's/M1917's ejector/bolt stop springs broke frequently enough that they were changed to coils. Just another stuipid design feature on the VZ.

Quote:

as well as the paperclip spring guide.


What paperclip spring guide are you talking about?

Again, take your rifle apart if you own one :roll: the recoil spring guide is a flimsy piece of bent wire, really screams robust.......

You answered your own question......
Hitzy wrote:
Quote:

Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?



The Czech's are going with the cheaper rifle - go figure.

Going with a cheaper rifle that they still cannot afford to arm their army with. Cheaper, as in ease of manufacture, certainly doesn't mean lower quality or less effective. But I wouldn't expect you to think that one through....... :roll:

A DIRECT RESPONSE TO HITZY.... THE INTERNET HERO...

I have no idea why you have a hard on for me, but you really need to get over it. I certainly don't get "worked up" like you do over someone's opinion on an internet message board.

Hitzy you are a fool...

1. you claim that we have some kind of feud... but you can't spell my name, which is written on the same page you reply to...

2. you can't answer a single rebuttle that I mention ... even the simple ones

3. my original statement and one that stands still... Is that the CZ-58 is a better rifle than the AK-47... if you can't figure this out, well I should stop picking on you... you must be a simpleton

4. the words that you don't understand .... are letters made up into short strings that make out phoenetic sounds that mean things in my language... insult me as you will, but you seem to be the one that doesn't understand....

I posted my experience and personal evaluations of the firearm... I provided timeframes and locations... can you do the same?

You provided a 'Google-this' cause I heard... I wonder have you any experience with either rifle?

In language that you might understand:

Have you actually held a CZ-58 or AK-47 ? or are all your opinions based on the internet?

Have you actually fired an AK-47 or CZ-58? or all your opinions based on the internet?

Hitzy wrote:

Mabey YOU should have a look at your rifle.....if you own one. The bolt itself, does not lock to the receiver or a barrel extension, that's what the locking wedge accomplishes. AK, AR, M1, M14, FAL, etc.etc all have direct lock up of the bolt to either the receiver or barrel extension. the VZ/CZ what ever you want to call it, is a stupid lock up design IMHO, it adds another part to the action that is unecessary, just another part to fail.

Please tell me that you don't think the bolt locks to nothing? Where does your bolt lock to... never never land?

Please enlighten me as to your experience with the rifle... so far you attack but you can't substantiate.... you are starting to look like quite the looser.

Seriously - do I threaten you?

Thamok wrote: (something like)

The CZ-58 is 'better' than the AK-47

But you don't understand me ?

really?

I have fired both, I have taken both apart and I have carried both on patrol... but Hitzy doesn't think I speak english, thus he doesn't understand my statement...

Hitzy - I ask again have you ever fired an AK-47 or CZ-58? Or is all your knowledge based upon the internet? Wake up man and step away from the keyboard!

 

[Hitzy]

So the VZ is better than the AK? Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?

Actually I heard there new rifle was the same design as the VZ58 internally.

The lock up of the VZ is one of the silliest parts of the design, every service rifle I can think of has the bolt locking directly to the reciever, this adds another seperate piece to the lockup, never a good thing. The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design, as well as the paperclip spring guide. Google CZ2000/Lada2000 and there is some info on that rifle.

I also doubt they are cheaper to make , 50 million AK's tells me that.
They are not nearly as robust as the AK.

50 million AK's is just proof of how powerfull the soviet union was at standardization of a rifle. They gave them away for FREE and sent there toolling and people to other warsaw countries so they to could produce them.

If its so much cheaper to turn out the CZ2000 then why dint they finally adopt it? Because it wasnt cheaper to produce. The czech dont have to produce rifles, cause under communism they poured thousands and thousands of these rifles out of the factory.

And My readings of the CZ2000/lada is that it is based on the same system as the VZ58. Just the difference is the increased use on stampings for the receiver and such.

You think after being the only warsaw pact country not to make AK's they where going to start now there free? :roll: :lol:

You're biased against the rifle for the simple fact Marstar gave you such a #### rifle.

Here, I don't understand czech but seems to say based on the AK-74 http://www.volny.cz/weapon/cs/lada.htm

 

[Thamok]

You honestly don't get it do you?


_____________________________


I apologize to Hitzy, and withdraw all comments. Hitzy I am sorry.

I should never have entered a debate with you...

my apologies...

I am sorry.

 

[Hitzy]

[quote="Thamok]

Seriously - do I threaten you?

[/quote]

Dude, the only thing you threaten is my un-waivering beleif that all gunowners are intelligent and good people. :wink:

I'm not getting into a pissing match, the board direction is frowning on this. Your opinion is just that, an opinion, don't try and pass it off as fact. All I've done is stated my opinion, you seem to take offence to that, not sure why you lose sleep over my opinion but thanks for all the attention.
Lots of folks love thier VZ-58's, I don't think they are that great, get over it. :roll:

 

[Norcyaddict762]

I agree with Hitzy here. Gun owners are good people. Some are more ignorant than others at that.. I shall say adue.

Try and keep peace here, we supposedly are all one family aren't we?

 

[Scarecrow]

So the VZ is better than the AK? Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?

Actually I heard there new rifle was the same design as the VZ58 internally.

The lock up of the VZ is one of the silliest parts of the design, every service rifle I can think of has the bolt locking directly to the reciever, this adds another seperate piece to the lockup, never a good thing. The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design, as well as the paperclip spring guide. Google CZ2000/Lada2000 and there is some info on that rifle.

I also doubt they are cheaper to make , 50 million AK's tells me that.
They are not nearly as robust as the AK.

50 million AK's is just proof of how powerfull the soviet union was at standardization of a rifle. They gave them away for FREE and sent there toolling and people to other warsaw countries so they to could produce them.

If its so much cheaper to turn out the CZ2000 then why dint they finally adopt it? Because it wasnt cheaper to produce. The czech dont have to produce rifles, cause under communism they poured thousands and thousands of these rifles out of the factory.

And My readings of the CZ2000/lada is that it is based on the same system as the VZ58. Just the difference is the increased use on stampings for the receiver and such.

You think after being the only warsaw pact country not to make AK's they where going to start now there free? :roll: :lol:

You're biased against the rifle for the simple fact Marstar gave you such a #### rifle.

Here, I don't understand czech but seems to say based on the AK-74 http://www.volny.cz/weapon/cs/lada.htm

You read Czech?
Just because it mentions AK74 doesnt mean its based off it. It could be compared to. They might beleive the stamped receiver is taken from the 74. My understanding from what I read is that the gun is internally designed the same as the VZ58. Ive tried to find the page I read, and I can't, but I remember it because I already talked it out with redleg when I was saying import it.

In any case your still wrong because the Czech dint adopt it, they stuck with there current rifle. So obviously the price wasnt cheaper for the Lada.

 

[Hitzy]

So the VZ is better than the AK? Is that why the Czech's are dumping the VZ's in favor of an AK design?

Actually I heard there new rifle was the same design as the VZ58 internally.

The lock up of the VZ is one of the silliest parts of the design, every service rifle I can think of has the bolt locking directly to the reciever, this adds another seperate piece to the lockup, never a good thing. The leaf springs in the trigger mech is another weak design, as well as the paperclip spring guide. Google CZ2000/Lada2000 and there is some info on that rifle.

I also doubt they are cheaper to make , 50 million AK's tells me that.
They are not nearly as robust as the AK.

50 million AK's is just proof of how powerfull the soviet union was at standardization of a rifle. They gave them away for FREE and sent there toolling and people to other warsaw countries so they to could produce them.

If its so much cheaper to turn out the CZ2000 then why dint they finally adopt it? Because it wasnt cheaper to produce. The czech dont have to produce rifles, cause under communism they poured thousands and thousands of these rifles out of the factory.

And My readings of the CZ2000/lada is that it is based on the same system as the VZ58. Just the difference is the increased use on stampings for the receiver and such.

You think after being the only warsaw pact country not to make AK's they where going to start now there free? :roll: :lol:

You're biased against the rifle for the simple fact Marstar gave you such a #### rifle.

Here, I don't understand czech but seems to say based on the AK-74 http://www.volny.cz/weapon/cs/lada.htm

You read Czech?
Just because it mentions AK74 doesnt mean its based off it. It could be compared to. They might beleive the stamped receiver is taken from the 74. My understanding from what I read is that the gun is internally designed the same as the VZ58. Ive tried to find the page I read, and I can't, but I remember it because I already talked it out with redleg when I was saying import it.

In any case your still wrong because the Czech dint adopt it, they stuck with there current rifle. So obviously the price wasnt cheaper for the Lada.

All I have to say is this: :lol:

 

[Nine]

Touché. :shock:


:lol:

 

[Norcyaddict762]

Nice.. that is the lada system in .223. ?

 

[Deckard]

It is the ponn farr - the time of mating. Consider if any creature as proudly logical as us - were to have their logic ripped from them as this time does to us. Live long and prosper? I shall do neither. I have killed my captain, and my friend. :mrgreen:

 

[sixty9santa]

What is the difference between the VZ58 and the CZ58 ???

 

[Scarecrow]

What is the difference between the VZ58 and the CZ58 ???

One shoots lasers...

Actually one is the real name, the other is a slang name. Like the words boobs and tits.

 

[Norcyaddict762]

oh god :roll: :lol:
I would like to see the mods you can do with the rifle to make it even better.

 

[Deckard]

What is the difference between the VZ58 and the CZ58 ???

CZ=Česká zbrojovka a.s., Uherský Brod
VZ=vzor = model, type, pattern.

They are the same thing as sa vz.58 and sa.58 for that matter, as sa means samopal which means submachine gun.