Waterfowl gun

[Claybuster]

we agree on the red part.
but what exactly are you basing the reliability and performance part of your statement on if not pure conjecture?
have you developed a way to assess reliability and performance based on observing tool marks?

i am not advocating the Stoeger, really im not. what pisses me off however is the constant gun snobbery and bashing of products like it by people who have never owned them yet have somehow formed expert opinions on how unreliable they are and how poorly they will perform based solely on their country of manufacture. there are tens of thousands of happy Stoeger owners and i cant find any threads about them failing or being unreliable, yet all of the Benelli owners who have never owned one know all about their unreliability and failures

why the bashing, seriously? can you not just say how much you like your Benelli and leave it at that? let people come to their own conclusions based on handling the gun, the price, online reviews and threads from actual owners.

It's more than just conjecture. I've examined them, shot them and don't think much of them. Performance was measured shooting the gun. It handled poorly compared to the Benelli. Reliability was a series of FTFs with loads the Benelli handled with no problem. It's working the action and feeling the rough surfaces, a heavy, creepy trigger pull, a rough safety and very poor choke tube installation.

Maybe the gun I tried was the worst example of a Stoeger 2000 that was ever produced. But having looked at a couple of others I don't think it was.

This has nothing to do with the country it came from.

From a straight value perspective, the Stoeger is probably not all that bad. There are guns that are worse value out there including some from Italy and the U.S.

If you can't discern the quality difference between the Benelli and the Stoeger or don't think it's worth the extra money then buy the Stoeger. It will probably work out just fine for you.

 

[manbearpig]

The Benelli is superior to the Stoeger. It is more expensive and from the perspectives of quality of workmanship, reliability and performance and is worth the extra money IMO.

we agree on the red part.

If you can't discern the quality difference between the Benelli and the Stoeger

??? ive mentioned them a dozen times.


on FTF: all of the inertia operated guns - including the Benelli M2 and Stoeger 2000 - need to be broken in in order to cycle lighter loads properly. it even says so in the manual. the Stoeger possibly needs more breaking in than the Benelli to smooth out the rougher action.
in addition to going through a few boxes of shells you could just sit down in front of the TV and manually cycle the action several hundred times.
most people that buy inertia operated guns dont do this, hence a lot of the FTF complaints from customers. they buy it, dont read the manual, then go and try to shoot light loads in it and flip out because its not cycling. even Benellis get bad press because of this from people who dont RTFM.

obviously you know this already as a Benelli owner, but did you consider that the gun you fired may not have been broken in properly by the customer -- and if you fired a couple of boxes of heavy loads through it it may have smoothed out perfectly?

anyways, i am off to sleep. look, im just throwing the Stoeger out there as a possible alternative to consider - along with the Brownings, Mossbergs, Remingtons, Baikals, etc. if i said anything that offended anyone my apologies - all i want is for people to keep an open mind.
merry christmas and goodnight.

 

[Tozman]

I usualy come here to defend the less expensive shotguns, but I will side with Claybuster on this one.

The Stoeger 2000 is faaaaaar from the Benelli. It looks a bit like it, uses similar inertia action system and is marketed as being owned/associated by/with Berreta/Benelli. The similarities end there. The Stoeger is made by Vursan in Turkey www.vursan.com.tr

Apart from workmanship, quality control and reliability issues, the Stoeger does not come with the recoil reducing features of the Benelli.

As the original poster is looking for a waterfowl gun.....suffice it to say that it is not a good candidate for that job. Just shoot a few 3 inch magnum shells and you will understand what I mean...

My friend has a Stoeger 2000 and it kicks much more with 3 " shells than my gas operated Baikal MP-153 with 3 1/2 inch loads. I am not recoil shy, but I prefer gas operated shotguns for waterfowl.

Beretta, Browning and Benelli semi-auto shotguns are all pricey but will serve you well. If you don't want to spend that kind of money for a waterfowl gun, there are far better choices than the Stoeger: The gas operated Baikal MP-153 (which is also the Remington SPR-453) is the best among the less expensive ones. The Mossberg 935 is not a bad choice either.

 

[manbearpig]

anyone see these in Canada yet?

actually nevermind - gonna start a new thread asking about this... dont want to derail this one

 

[MGW]

Well thanks for the responses! To be honest I've never really remingtons... It seems as thought the price point on the winchesters and Brownings is pretty good. I guess I'm going to just have to handle a few and see which feels and fits me the best!

Seems as though there are some strong opinions on Stoeger vs. Benelli!

Any furhter comments, especially on the winchesters and brownings are welcomed!

Thanks and happy holidays

 

[southoftheborder]

This thread has legs.

I've read all the posts concerning the Stoegers and Benellis.After all the points considered in this discussion,there hasn't been any mention of the quality of steel used in the construction of the Stoegers.I would have some concern about this, since this gun is made in a third world country.There also hasn't been any discussion about resale.I would speculate that most buyers wouldn't be concerned with this issue,but they should at least consider it.

There also has been a considerable amount of discussion about price,and I'm shocked that the Benellis cost so much more in Canada.As a result, the decision to buy is made a little more difficult,but not that much more difficult.

Edited to add afew more of my favorite Benellis.

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[manbearpig]

there hasn't been any mention of the quality of steel used in the construction of the Stoegers.I would have some concern about this, since this gun is made in a third world country.

Turkey is actually a First World Nation, lol.

here we go with the rumors and myths again though
what data do you base this on? have you actually seen comparisons between the steel used in Stoegers and the steel used in Benellis? for all you know Beretta sources the same steel for all of its products. i dont think ive actually heard of a modern production gun other than the Tikkas (which had a batch of bad steel and some nasty barrel bursts due to it) that actually had catastrophic failures due to 'poor quality steel'. failures, yes - most due to reloaders or careless/uninformed owners, but these had nothing to do with poor quality steel and can happen with any gun.

can we please keep this discussion based on FACT and not rumors and speculation?

resale is definitely a consideration though, good point. however if you look at overall LOSS im sure theyd roughly be the same. ie: if you bought a Benelli, or a Stoeger, used them for a couple of months, then sold them, overall you would lose the same amount of money - maybe $100-200 tops on either.
or, according to the EE pricing lately, you could sell them for $200 more than retail, LOL

 

[southoftheborder]

Social unrest, political and ethnic violence, paralysis of the state bureaucracy and other institutions, increasing foreign debt, decreasing economic growth, vast inflation and increasing unemployment have all been part of everyday life in Turkey's recent history.These reasons alone would disqualify Turkey from even being considered as first world country.

It's obvious that you think you read something that I didn't write.I merely intimated that I would be concerned about the quality of steel,but made no definitive statement about it.Speculation is a viable tool to be used in a discussion of this type.

I dare say that all of your posts on this topic weren't factual.

 

[DEZ]

Baikal MP 153 best semi auto I have ever owned this is my 4th semi I've had a browning gold hunter Mossbergs 935 ulti mag and a Berreta none of them function as reliable as the baikal from 3.5 to 2.75 shells it spits them all out . went out yesterday and then last day of the season today -27 this morning the gun functioned perfectly . Bought mine about half way through this season from Ellwood Epps. for $619.00 couldn't be happier with it . the only other semi I've seen work as well is my friends $2000.00 Benelli

 

[manbearpig]

Social unrest, political and ethnic violence, paralysis of the state bureaucracy and other institutions, increasing foreign debt, decreasing economic growth, vast inflation and increasing unemployment have all been part of everyday life in Turkey's recent history.These reasons alone would disqualify Turkey from even being considered as first world country.

Turkey is a First World Nation and NATO member. its not 'up for debate', it just is. honestly im not too happy about the fact but it is a fact and arguing about it isnt going to change it
www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/first_world.htm

It's obvious that you think you read something that I didn't write.I merely intimated that I would be concerned about the quality of steel,but made no definitive statement about it.Speculation is a viable tool to be used in a discussion of this type.

youre right... it seemed to me when i read it that there was an implication, but after re-reading it i probably just took it wrong.

 

[Covey Ridge]

manbearpig suggests that I may be bashing because I have not owned a Stoeger. I have never bashed them. I have just stated that they are not worth 95% of a B for 25% of the price of a B. I am suggesting that this is a foolish suggestion, especially since manbearpig also does not own one.

Today I took a 2000 and a SBE2 apart side by side. Now I will take back the term knock off that I was quick to agree with. There is only one part that is similar between the two and that part was not finished as well as a Brunswick Sardine Can. I would only recommend the Stoeger to someone with little expectations and then I would hope that the price would be reduced to around $395.00.

Knock off?

 

[Covey Ridge]

but another part of my conscience is telling me to just get the Stoeger for simple function alone and save the money. its really a personal decision - there is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer.

Why not put your balls where your type is and buy one?

which is what pisses me off about some of you Benelli guys never having owned a Stoeger yet making it out like theyre going to blow up in his face when he touches off the first round.

I am not a Benelli guy? I have never suggested or made it out like a Stoeger would blow up! but the fact that it does not blow up does not earn it a 95%.
Where did you get that figure anyway? Don't answer that! It was rectorical and that is not a spelling mustake

Not a gun snob in any way. If someone has a 2000 and enjoys it great because its the shooting that is the funs stuff not the hardware, but when someone suggests it as a reasonable alternative and a good value

 

[manbearpig]

for hunting purposes a shotgun has to fire a shell, feed the next shell reliably, and not balance like a tree stump. period.
i didnt say it was 95% as good. i said it would work 95% as well.

you guys seem to be implying that if someone buys a Stoeger they are going to end up with something that wont feed half the time, may fall apart or blow up at random, and is supporting an evil third world regime that exploits workers and kills kittens by the thousands.

from nearly every owner account ive heard/read Stoeger owners seem well satisfied with their guns and the gun is overall regarded as a great value over in the states. i dont expect a gun dealer that makes his living from selling guns to agree.

just curious - whats your view on the Stevens 200?

 

[MGW]

Anyone else recommend the Baikal? What's the composite stock like, they only have a pic of the wood one on the website!

Are Weatherby SAS guns any good? Is it made by another manufacturer?
Thanks

 

[manbearpig]

Anyone else recommend the Baikal? What's the composite stock like, they only have a pic of the wood one on the website!
Thanks

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=203143

apparently the Baikal = Remington SPR 453

 

[Covey Ridge]

just curious - whats your view on the Stevens 200?

Highly recomend to anyone wanting a good shooter and on a buget! Would sell one to a friend! Would sell a Stoeger to anyone who wanted to buy one, but will not recomend. Would try to talk a friend out of buying!

BTW, manbearpig, many dealers make more money selling cheaper stuff than the more expensive stuff!

 

[Covey Ridge]

for hunting purposes a shotgun has to fire a shell, feed the next shell reliably, and not balance like a tree stump. period.
i didnt say it was 95% as good. i said it would work 95% as well.

Now let me get this straight! Your expectations for a hunting gun is that it has to fire a shell, feed the next shell reliably? and not balance like a tree stump? Period? I take period to mean that’s all? When you said “i said that it would work 95% as well” should we take that to mean for the economic price if it works 95% of the time and 5% of the time it does not work, that is acceptable?

I will not pretend to be an expert in gun balance, especially the not like a tree stump part, but my expectations of a hunting gun are every bit as high as a target gun, especially when it comes to shooting live birds and not just fragile clay targets. I have a high expectation of a clean kill and a retrievable bird.

If shoot bang, do it again bang, is all you expect, and you are O.K. with going shoot bang do it again bang and only expect it to happen 95% of the time and can accept 5% failure to shoot bang, do it again bang, then the Stoeger 2000 will probably exceed your expectations and is a good bang for your $buck$.

 

[Covey Ridge]

you guys seem to be implying that if someone buys a Stoeger they are going to end up with something that wont feed half the time, may fall apart or blow up at random, and is supporting an evil third world regime that exploits workers and kills kittens by the thousands.

I just re checked this thread. No one implyed any such thing! However....you seemed to have assumed this?

 

[Covey Ridge]

i dont expect a gun dealer that makes his living from selling guns to agree.

another assumption?

 

[Covey Ridge]

and there it is: you sell guns.

how many times does a customer walk into a gunstore and tell the salesperson that he just needs 'a reliable no-frills deer gun that wont break the bank', and the salesman lets him walk out the door with a Stevens 200?

no, dont answer that - its a rhetorical question.

How did I miss this one? Since it is more rectorical than rhetorical, I will answer it

It happen all the time