Weatherby Vanguard - sub MOA models worth the extra $$ ?

J

Jeff/1911

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Hi Guys,

I didn't want to derail my other thread, as there is great discussion about the benefits of the .260 Remington cartidge going on there...:)

I am thinking I may need A Weatherby rifle chambered in .257 Weatherby; for coyotes and possible deer. ;) I think I will likely give one of these a try in the very near future.

I am interested in whether the group here has a definitive opinion on whether the "sub MOA" line of Weatherby Vanguard rifles offers significant advantage over the standard Vanguard line...the one I am particularly interested in is the matte blued sub MOA Vanguard. Like this:

http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=3&prod_code=VMM7M8RR4O

Also, is stainless a better choice if for no other reason than as a hedge against barrel wear in this high intensity cartridge?

Thanks for any help you can offer - Jeff.
 
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I was just told by a local sales guy...that the Sub MOA Vanguards are "selected" by Weatherby as those testing better than others, and sidelined for sale as "sub MOA" rifles. Does this sound right?

I did notice from the website description that rifles in the sub MOA line seems to get pillar bedded stocks, as opposed to just "injection molded" ones...are these sub MOA stocks any good?

Am I better off to buy a standard Vanguard, then add a good, custom stock later?

Lots of questions...:rolleyes:
 
I've been wondering the same thing myself. If the MOA's are the specimens that are hand selected because of better accuracy, does that mean that the regular non-MOA's have already been tested and proven to exhibit only average accuracy, i.e. does buying a regular model guarantee that you're not going to get a sweet shooter?

John
 
It is amazing what a a really good stock can do for accuracy...however it can't make a bad shooter sub MOA in most cases. The barrel I think has a larger play in accuracy. That said replacing a crap stock with a much better one can certainly pick up whatever accuracy was left on the table. I'd be tempted just to purchase the standard version and handload for it and see what you can get then play with bedding and stock. Another alternative is to build one for big $$$
 
If the MOA's are the specimens that are hand selected because of better accuracy, does that mean that the regular non-MOA's have already been tested and proven to exhibit only average accuracy, i.e. does buying a regular model guarantee that you're not going to get a sweet shooter?
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I have fired several standard vanguards that were quite accurate,as well as a few s&w 1500s and mossberg 1500s,which are all the same basic rifle made by howa.I would buy a standard vanguard and have a mcmillan installed if I really wanted a better stock.

Also, is stainless a better choice if for no other reason than as a hedge against barrel wear in this high intensity cartridge?
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A few barrel makers that I have talked with,claim that stainless is slightly more resistant to throat erosion,so a stainless barrel may last a bit longer.

In any case,I would not buy a .257wby with a 24" barrel,as a 26" barrel does a much better job of showing the cartridges true potential.I would buy a used magnum action rifle such as a model 700,or a vanguard,and have it rebarreled with a premium grade 26" barrel.
 
jjohnwm said:
I've been wondering the same thing myself. If the MOA's are the specimens that are hand selected because of better accuracy, does that mean that the regular non-MOA's have already been tested and proven to exhibit only average accuracy, i.e. does buying a regular model guarantee that you're not going to get a sweet shooter?

John
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What's more...the same fellow I spoke to explained that he has seen some of the "Standard" Vanguards with better atached targets than other sub-MOA ones.
 
the MOA ones have fiberglass bell & carlson stocks, the regular ones have plastic tupperware

Id almost be tempted to buy a tupperware Vanguard and order a McMillan out of the states, it'd be close in price to the MOA version and have a bit better stock to boot. Add a timney trigger and I think it'd be a heck of a rifle
 
The test targets used to select actions for Sub MOA designation don't mean much. The barreled actions are clamped in a machine rest and three un-aimed shots are fired thru it. The test targets that result are a bit random. You could get a non-moa with better potential than a sub moa and vis versa. No question tho, the Sub MOA has a better stock.
 
I doubt if Weatherby builds the regular Vanguards, tests them and then takes the best to be sub-moa and restocks them and then retestfires them. You'd also have to change the floorplate (which on the sub-moa models is engraved). Just too much work for the return.

If the regular Vanguards shoot sub-1.5 moa, a few tweaks at the factory including better stocks and whatever else Weatherby can do will probably take the accuracy below moa. I looked at a Vanguard 270 win the other day with a factory shot target of 1/2 moa. Now this rifle would be classified in the submoa group if the factory removed all the good ones.

Jeff
 
The barreled actions are clamped in a machine rest and three un-aimed shots are fired thru it.
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So only the barreled action is used to supposedly test the accuracy?Are the test targets supplied with each rifle fired with the stock installed?If not,they don't mean much.Either way ,firing a single group,with a single load,is not a good indication of a rifles accuracy potential.
 
todbartell said:
the MOA ones have fiberglass bell & carlson stocks, the regular ones have plastic tupperware

Id almost be tempted to buy a tupperware Vanguard and order a McMillan out of the states, it'd be close in price to the MOA version and have a bit better stock to boot. Add a timney trigger and I think it'd be a heck of a rifle
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If you factored in the cost of the McMillan to get to your door, the cost of the trigger, the cost of the gunsmith to install the trigger and get a proper fit glass bedding ect...you might as well skip the whole Vangurad idea and go to a Kimber which is waaay better or a Sako 75 Finnlight.

Cheers!!
 
you're probably right but I would still ditch that piece of #### finnlight stock and try to find something decent
 
This idea doesn't make a lot of sense does it...? I was thinking the same thing - the barrelled action test fired without any stock?!? :rolleyes:

Anyway, I have just returned from buying a basic blued Vanguard, with tupperware stock, a decent trigger and an OK test target (in .257 Weatherby) I'll scope it tonight and dial in & shoot it tomorrow at the range with some of the $63 / box Weatherby factory ammunition I just bought two boxes of. :eek: I'll post my targets later.:)

What an impulse buy this is!
 
Jeff/1911 said:
This idea doesn't make a lot of sense does it...? I was thinking the same thing - the barrelled action test fired without any stock?!? :rolleyes:

Anyway, I have just returned from buying a basic blued Vanguard, with tupperware stock, a decent trigger and an OK test target (in .257 Weatherby) I'll scope it tonight and dial in & shoot it tomorrow at the range with some of the $63 / box Weatherby factory ammunition I just bought two boxes of. :eek: I'll post my targets later.:)

What an impulse buy this is!
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It'll be a great hunting gun. 1/2 to 1 1/2 groups really doesnt make a difference in hunting. World record buck was taken with a old 88 lever, not some one hole shooting super magnum.

Cheers!!
 
World record buck was taken with a old 88 lever, not some one hole shooting super magnum.
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By the same token,a woman named Bella Twin killed one of the largest grizzly bears recorded with a single shot .22,but I for one wouldn't be hunting grizzly with a .22,even if it was legal.
 
stubblejumper said:
By the same token,a woman named Bella Twin killed one of the largest grizzly bears recorded with a single shot .22,but I for one wouldn't be hunting grizzly with a .22,even if it was legal.
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Whats your saying isnt even comparable, the Model 88 lever action has taken all sorts of big game, many being trophies across North America and Africa. The .22 has taken 1 and was in self defence and a fluke shot. The buck knife has also been used to kill a grizzly this fall in Northern Alberta, gonna compare that to the 88 lever as well??
 
I'd go with a stainless Vanguard and order up a MacMillan myself...but I just had my new 26" 257 Wtby at the range on Sunday...now boys and girls this one flat shooting cartridge....I didn't set up the chrony but 69grs of Rel22 under a 110 Accubond should be 3400+.... I was 2-1/2" high at 100 M...1" high at 200M and a whole 4 inches low at 300 meters....

and it's been discussed before but a 24" 257W gives up very little to a 26" tube....Layne Simpson did a write-up on it a few months or a year ago...a couple factory loads were even a bit faster in the 24" Vanguard that the 26" Mark V.

I have some 100gr TSX's here that will get a run thru the barrel.....I'm hoping to see 3600.....I am planning on trying Rel 25 also...if I like it I may have to build one in stainless......my 25-06 is going to feel left out.

If I were starting out and wanted a deer rifle with a flat trajectory that would maybe see coyote duty once in a while I'd look no further than the 257Wtby.....
 
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