Webley Cylinders

[H Wally]

Thinking some more about webleys with shaved cylinders to accomodate 45 auto.

First - How available are 455 webley cylinders? As I understand it, each make of webley had at least some alterations, so is it possible to swap say... a MK1 and a MK2 or 3? If I had an MK1, I'm assuming the further/later the model from it would be harder and harder to swap.

Basically, reloading 45 auto cases is easy,, but I would like the option of shooting 455 webley without dropping $1000+++ on another gun if one can swap, or modify and swap the cylinder instead.


The same question was asked here, but was soon derailed and not answered. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-262195.html

 

[gallen270]

would it be overly hard to have a machinist make just a cylinder? then find or rent a reamer to finish it.

 

[ErikT]

Considering that Webleys usually aren't rare, you should be able to find an extra cylinder somewhere; Numrich might be able to help you, if they will actually ship the cylinder up here. You could also try WGP here in Edmonton, but I don't know if they carry older stuff like that. Once you track one down, then I'm sure it wouldn't cost too much to have a smith shave the rear of the cylinder for you so you can use .45 Auto loads.

On another note, I just used a mini-lathe to thin down the rims on some .45 Colt brass, which were then shortened to .455 Webley length and sized accordingly. Worked like a charm, and was considerably cheaper to find than actual .455 brass. Maybe you could save the time and effort by having a smith shave the cylinder to headspace the .45 Colt brass without having to thin the rims? I was planning to have that done myself, but getting married and downsizing my collection meant saying goodbye to my Webley, which I am still kicking myself for. I think it would work pretty well, and you would just have to shorten the brass and go to town. My thoughts anyway.

Erik.

 

[dingus]

Webley MkI MKII and MKIII cylinders are very Rare.
They sell for like $300 each if you could ever find one.

Even the modern made Webley MKVI cylinders will set you Back $200 but still hard to find and they wont just fit in the Old webs.
Webley factory did install some MKVI cylinders in MKIs and MKIIs but that was in there Webley Machine shop.
Numrich wont ship Cylinders to Canada either.

Best to just buy a MKI or MKII in 45 ACP then your good to go.

 

[H Wally]

In that case.... I guess a machinist shouldn't charge too much for a no flares cylinder, smooth sided just made to function but not for looks like Gallen suggested. Other than for weight and aesthetics, did the cylinder fluting serve any purpose? I'd imagine having that done would increase the costs on having a cylinder made by a fair bit.

Could be a fun thing to do. Could even have it done with a 45lc rim recess so when I trimmed 45lc to fit 455 webley I didn't have to trim the rims.

 

[mooncoon]

In that case.... I guess a machinist shouldn't charge too much for a no flares cylinder, smooth sided just made to function but not for looks like Gallen suggested..

At $60 - $80/hr, it would not take very long to make it cheaper to buy an original. The actual time to remove the metal is short, it is the set up time which will probably cost the money.

cheers mooncoon

 

[GrantR]

If you are after a revolver which qualifies as an antique in Canada, you are pretty much out of luck - what has already been said about availability of replacement cylinders for the early models of .455 Webley Service reviolvers is true, unfortunately. Mind you, .45ACP and .45 Auto Rim are not on the list of chamberings which disqualify a handgun from being "antique", so I think even shaved revolvers that are otherwise old enough still command pretty high prices up here, anyway .....

On the other hand, although unaltered Mark VI Webleys are much more common in Canada than shaved ones, Apex Gun Parts in Colorado list complete .455 Mark VI barrel and cylinder assemblies for US $235 .... you'd have to contact them to find out if they'll ship to Canada.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/index.php/cPath/28_59?osCsid=eb08a91b16ca13417054287150115bf8

(If I recall correctly, they used to list .455 Mark VI cylinders alone but don't see them now, so they must be sold out of those. )

 

[trevj]

In that case.... I guess a machinist shouldn't charge too much for a no flares cylinder, smooth sided just made to function but not for looks like Gallen suggested. Other than for weight and aesthetics, did the cylinder fluting serve any purpose? I'd imagine having that done would increase the costs on having a cylinder made by a fair bit.

Could be a fun thing to do. Could even have it done with a 45lc rim recess so when I trimmed 45lc to fit 455 webley I didn't have to trim the rims.

See if you can get a competent machinist to even look at your drawings.

Then when he's told it's for gun stuff.... See the dollar signs flash in his eyes!

Prove me wrong, but I think yer not gonna find anyone that can make you a decent cylinder, that will. At least not on this side of the line. And definately not for less than it will cost you outright to just buy another pistol. Even Stateside, it'd be tough to pay a guy that's capable, enough money to drag him away from making whatever else it is that he's backlogged on, if he has any gun experience.

Cheers
Trev

 

[dingus]

Apex will not ship cylinders or Barrels to Canada.

Makeing a Cylinder from scratch is no easy Task. Theres the Extractor on a webley to think about and the Stop notches have to be perfect and cut just right.
You take a close look at any Webley MK cylinder and you will see its not something to just have made.

 

[DEZ]

Buy 45 auto rim brass then the moon clips arn't needed and this should be able to be used in any webley turned off for 45 ACP .

 

[Al Flipo]

See if you can get a competent machinist to even look at your drawings. Then when he's told it's for gun stuff.... See the dollar signs flash in his eyes!CheersTrev

Yeah, sure, we are just waiting for a job like that to come along and be compensated for our time at less then 10$/ph.

 

[trevj]

Yeah, sure, we are just waiting for a job like that to come along and be compensated for our time at less then 10$/ph.

My point exactly. Most shops won't get up and turn on a machine for less than $50, in my experience. To get them to sit down with drawings (or worse, make the drawings) then go through the set-up and machining time, and eat the potential loss of both, due to either unforeseen difficulties...Well, like I said. Better off to buy what you need, and entirely more practical.

Guys that don't do any of this stuff, whether for a living, or for a hobby, never seem to get that it isn't something that happens fast, or cheaply. Especially for a one-of part.

Amortizing the cost of tooling and fixtures over a thousand piece run makes the cost per part a lot more palatable, but then you need to have both the cash for the thousand piece run, and the outlet to profit from it.

Lesse. Last I seen posted online, a typical shop rate, to keep the power and lights on, the machines being operated (rent/ mortgage, wages, compo/UI, etc) and so on, was around $150 an hour to break even. That was for a basic utility grade maintenance type shop, not one heavily invested in CNC. Same cost to the owner of the shop, whether he is making drawings to your part, or performing really simple repetitive set-up parts that he can do dozens an hour at. And the shop owner likes to be able to eat, too.

Cheers
Trev