Webley RIC Pre 2 Blowed Up

53Izzy744

53Izzy744

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Hi all,

Been a while and finally got a chance to get out shooting with the antique webley RIC.

It was fun while it lasted! But after about 10 shots my front trigger guard screw blew apart!! Now the trigger return doesn't work so I need to replace the screw before trying it out again.

Wondering if anyone knows where i can get a replacement in Canada? Or should I just take it to a gunsmith and see if they have anything similar. I would like to keep it original but if a new screw made with better metal is available i don't mind so it doesn't happen again.

Load was 260gr bullet with 4gr unique powder in new starline 455 brass

Thanks all

Some pics



 
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The odds on any old screw fitting that are slim. It is probably a Whitworth thread forming it’s not an in house one, not the most common.

Start with the gunsmiths/sites for parts, then you are looking at cutting threads to match it. McMaster Carr might have something that will work.

All of that said I would stick with original vintage metal if you can, or the weak point will be the frame/trigger guard instead of the screw next time.
 
The likelihood of finding an original trigger guard screw is next to nil.
Might be possible to find an old screw with the correct thread that could be made to work.
Making a replacement should be possible and practical.
Getting out the broken screw shouldn't be too difficult.

Wonder why it broke.
 
Thanks guys, i will work on getting it out first then see if the rear screw is the same thread to compare.

My guess is that the screw maybe had been over tightened at some point then broke on a trigger pull (the return spring is under alot of pressure and really pushes hard against that guard. Or maybe recoil?
 
I think you may have another problem. It looks like the screw has broken off flush in the frame.
Remove the trigger guard and compare the rear screw hole with the front one.
 
remp49 said:
I think you may have another problem. It looks like the screw has broken off flush in the frame.
Remove the trigger guard and compare the rear screw hole with the front one.
Click to expand...

Should be easy to take out once the trigger guard is removed. Or just drill a small hole and then use a bolt extractor. The small bolts are different since the rear one has an angle to it to sit flush but the thread should be the same.

I feel your load is good for a MK1/2 but maybe a bit too hot for a RIC, especially if it the cylinder is unfluted. Also depends how you seated your bullet.

Are you sure that's a Webley?
 
4gr unique is a very mild charge. Are you using anything other than hollowbase bullets? Have you been deep seating your handloads by any chance? IIRC Ellwood Epps has an inhouse gunsmith who specializes on antique handguns, might want to give them a call.
 
May be Whitworth, may be BA (British Assosciated) threads. The latter are a right bugger to cut as they are essentially a bastard mix of English based on Metric. Taps and Dies to make your own screws and nuts, are available through suppliers to the Model Engineering community (British for Hobby Machinists), as are various fasteners. Those two thread forms use a 55 degree included angle (vice the 60, we are used to) and rounded roots and crests of the threads. IIRC, the BA Theads use a larger radius than the Whitworth, as a percentage of the thread pitch.

But on the positive, if you can get a solid ID on the thread pitch and diameter, chances are that there is a specialist supplier around that deals in British cars or bikes, and the like, that can supply you with (at least) a decent couple screws to use as a starting point to fit in place.

Worst case, you end up shopping online from England. I have bought a fair few things from there, and have always been surprised at how quickly they arrived!
 
Hey guys,

It is a 450, but i have been using 455 out of it for a while, ive only just recently switched to the bigger 265gr (mine come out around 260gr) bullets with 4gr Unique. I am seating them to the top lube groove like i have seen, and it gives me an oal of 1.204"

I looked at my footage and slowed it down and the screw is sheared on recoil. So i am assuming that these rounds are too hot, unless it was something flawed in the screw.

Once I have it fixed i will try again with less powder and see how it goes.

Rounds with the gun, as well as stills of the screw flying off after the shot (you'll notice the ejection rod slipping out of its place as well)



 
I took the trigger guard of my Webley Mk6 and measured the screws, the front one looks like an 8-36 should do the trick.
Long time ago I made one, lots of dicking around but managed to make one using a very adjustable metric 4mm die, 07. tread pitch and kept adjusting the die down to 3.55 mm and that did the trick.
The rear trigger guard screw has the same thread pitch (36/inch) but is 3.75 mm in diameter, don't what # screw that would be in SAE.
Hope this helps.
 
There are several shops in the UK that have spare parts for Webleys. Search online and contact them. I have had parts for British manufactured firearms shipped to North America before.
 
To shear a bolt head off (as pictured) through recoil alone??

If you had the trigger guard, alone, clamped firmly in a vice and then pulled the trigger (on a VERY hot load) you may have created a situation to shear the bolt head.

Firing the gun with what appears to be a normal hand position, I don't see how shearing a bolt head could happen even with a seriously over loaded ctg.
 
Left hand twist drill bits are often very effective at backing broken screw shanks out. An "easy out" can expand the diameter of the shank, making it more difficult to remove.
 
Pete04 said:
To shear a bolt head off (as pictured) through recoil alone??

If you had the trigger guard, alone, clamped firmly in a vice and then pulled the trigger (on a VERY hot load) you may have created a situation to shear the bolt head.

Firing the gun with what appears to be a normal hand position, I don't see how shearing a bolt head could happen even with a seriously over loaded ctg.
Click to expand...



Im not much of a handgun shooter but thats how i was holding it.

I will start extraction with a left hand bit and go from there with the easy out if that isnt doing it.

Also, a fellow gunner is checking to see if they have a spare screw laying around, but i will try to source one wherever i can before trying to get a machinist to fab one.
 
Even though it will accept .455 cases I would suggest using .450 equivalent ammunition. You are using 40gr heavier bullets at about the same velocity.
 
Izzy, to be clear, I don't think your ctg was seriously over loaded nor were you handling the gun wrong.

personally I think some one, over the years perhaps, has over tightened that bolt and it was ready to let go at any shock. IMHO
 
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