I am curious how the WG stacks up to the Mark I, II, III etc. as far as strength goes. I am aware of how the Mark I** uses a more recent cylinder and barrel and appears to be stronger. Where would a WG rate in comparison?
Webley strength
- Thread starter Bowie
- Start date
Which WG are you referring to? The WG was made from the mid 1880s into the 1900s, and metallurgy advanced quite a bit during that period so it would be reasonable to assume that latter made WGs may benefit from advanced metallurgy as compared to earlier made WGs.
I am not aware of any destructive testing done on either the MKI** or the WG to discover the upper pressure limits. There is a lot of internet supposition and you can take what you want from that if you like that sort of thing.
What we do know is that these webley designs are plenty strong enough to shoot the ammunition they were designed to shoot: 455 webley or .476 enfield ammo loaded within pressure limits designated for the cartridge. There is a good bit of safety margin built into the design of all of the webley revolvers, so of course the revolver will not blow up as soon as you go 1 psi over the cartridge pressure limit.
One 120 year old revolver may handle twice it's design pressure and show no sign of failure for hundreds of rounds, while an identical revolver may suffer mechanical failure on the first firing of that same overpressure cartridge. You don't know until you go too far.
It's like throwing pebbles at windows - if you keep throwing bigger pebbles you will eventually break the window, and now you know what size pebble you should NOT have thrown. The trick is to use discretion and maturity and stop before you break the window. Some people might even say that throwing rocks at windows wasn't a terribly clever idea to start with.
I am not aware of any destructive testing done on either the MKI** or the WG to discover the upper pressure limits. There is a lot of internet supposition and you can take what you want from that if you like that sort of thing.
What we do know is that these webley designs are plenty strong enough to shoot the ammunition they were designed to shoot: 455 webley or .476 enfield ammo loaded within pressure limits designated for the cartridge. There is a good bit of safety margin built into the design of all of the webley revolvers, so of course the revolver will not blow up as soon as you go 1 psi over the cartridge pressure limit.
One 120 year old revolver may handle twice it's design pressure and show no sign of failure for hundreds of rounds, while an identical revolver may suffer mechanical failure on the first firing of that same overpressure cartridge. You don't know until you go too far.
It's like throwing pebbles at windows - if you keep throwing bigger pebbles you will eventually break the window, and now you know what size pebble you should NOT have thrown. The trick is to use discretion and maturity and stop before you break the window. Some people might even say that throwing rocks at windows wasn't a terribly clever idea to start with.
Just my opinion ... not fact, ... however some limited experience with both the Mk1 and the WG indicates that both revolvers are quite similar in strength.
I have personally witnessed (not my gun or load) a .45 ACP WG being fired with way too much Trailboss under 230 grains of lead. A cracking loud and sharp report, obviously high pressure, but no damage was done to the gun, on that day.. Very <not recommended> to go anywhere near this hot, and the owner has since backed way off on his loads.
They are accurate revolvers, those WG's.
I run my ACP'd MK1 with slow burning #2400 powder and shortened .45 Win Mag brass, this for the heavier, very occasionally used, "bush" loads. Yes, 2400 is dirty burning stuff at these lower pressures, but also very forgiving.
Lighter charges of Unique in AR cases are used for day to day plinking loads.
I have personally witnessed (not my gun or load) a .45 ACP WG being fired with way too much Trailboss under 230 grains of lead. A cracking loud and sharp report, obviously high pressure, but no damage was done to the gun, on that day.. Very <not recommended> to go anywhere near this hot, and the owner has since backed way off on his loads.
They are accurate revolvers, those WG's.
I run my ACP'd MK1 with slow burning #2400 powder and shortened .45 Win Mag brass, this for the heavier, very occasionally used, "bush" loads. Yes, 2400 is dirty burning stuff at these lower pressures, but also very forgiving.
Lighter charges of Unique in AR cases are used for day to day plinking loads.
The weak point on any WG or say MKI or MKII Ect is the Latch that keeps the barrel shut with to hot a loads the latch screws start to bend (trust me i know ) alot of 45 acp ones have bent screws turn them 180 if the barrel to frame latch is tighter the screw is bent slightly... so you still have to be carefull.
The only WG thats stronger is the 1892 and up WG target models... why? because look at the latchs on them guns there fricken huge but the screws can still bend i think there bigger in Dia tho.
My advise is dont push the old guns use mild taget loads but if your a bush packer have some slightly hoter loads when you think you might need them.
But only in guns that can take it and safe loads.
I have a like new outa the box S&W 2nd model schofield (antique US marked) and its latch is the strongest made latch the hammer also adds strength as it has a notch to hold the latch from lifting when the S&W fires.
I shoot Trail boss loads of 800 FPS all the time the latch and gun shut tight as new.
I think some WGs have this hammer notch to i cant remember maby its tranter that did that, im beat from being on the water 3 days.
Most solid frame guns are way stronger than a WG or MKI really as the break open latch screws are not there to bend.
if you want a stronger WG then watch for a target model but your still limited dont over load the WGs they aint makeing anymore of them forget ever finding a Cylinder if you blow one up or split it.
) alot of 45 acp ones have bent screws turn them 180 if the barrel to frame latch is tighter the screw is bent slightly... so you still have to be carefull.The only WG thats stronger is the 1892 and up WG target models... why? because look at the latchs on them guns there fricken huge but the screws can still bend i think there bigger in Dia tho.
My advise is dont push the old guns use mild taget loads but if your a bush packer have some slightly hoter loads when you think you might need them.
But only in guns that can take it and safe loads.
I have a like new outa the box S&W 2nd model schofield (antique US marked) and its latch is the strongest made latch the hammer also adds strength as it has a notch to hold the latch from lifting when the S&W fires.
I shoot Trail boss loads of 800 FPS all the time the latch and gun shut tight as new.
I think some WGs have this hammer notch to i cant remember maby its tranter that did that, im beat from being on the water 3 days.
Most solid frame guns are way stronger than a WG or MKI really as the break open latch screws are not there to bend.
if you want a stronger WG then watch for a target model but your still limited dont over load the WGs they aint makeing anymore of them forget ever finding a Cylinder if you blow one up or split it.
I have no intention of overloading anything. The question I first posed was primarily about metallurgy and frame size - the WG appears to be more 'beefy'.
In the .455/476 revolvers, are you guys typically just running .455 webley brass (the shorter mkII) through them, or are you sourcing MkI brass or ??? One would expect that a longer case would produce less pressure with the same load, or conversely allow higher velocity with the same pressure.
In the .455/476 revolvers, are you guys typically just running .455 webley brass (the shorter mkII) through them, or are you sourcing MkI brass or ??? One would expect that a longer case would produce less pressure with the same load, or conversely allow higher velocity with the same pressure.
Thats true about the brass the best is to use 45 schofields brass in the 476 WGs as they can chamber that and 45 colt brass but some guns you have to thin the rims on the forward side or the rims are to fat to cycle.
Some WG cycle the brass fine.
Then i shoot TB or unique in the longer brass you can look at 2400 then to as it likes the longer brass.
If you want to use 455 brass try and buy some longer domion 455 colt brass is your best bet.
The longer brass is better to as the bullet dont need to jump as far to reach the barrel in the long WG chambers.
I dont like useing 45 colt marked brass as its on the no list so use 45 schofield brass from track the wolf.
I still shoot them fairly light as there not as strong metal wise as say a MKI**
Hope that helps abit i dont like to post my loads tho. Alot of guys shoot factory 455 Dionon Colt ammo in there WGs its pretty powerfull stuff you know your shootin thats for sure!
Excellent post Jethunter!
Which WG are you referring to? The WG was made from the mid 1880s into the 1900s, and metallurgy advanced quite a bit during that period so it would be reasonable to assume that latter made WGs may benefit from advanced metallurgy as compared to earlier made WGs.
I am not aware of any destructive testing done on either the MKI** or the WG to discover the upper pressure limits. There is a lot of internet supposition and you can take what you want from that if you like that sort of thing.
What we do know is that these webley designs are plenty strong enough to shoot the ammunition they were designed to shoot: 455 webley or .476 enfield ammo loaded within pressure limits designated for the cartridge. There is a good bit of safety margin built into the design of all of the webley revolvers, so of course the revolver will not blow up as soon as you go 1 psi over the cartridge pressure limit.
One 120 year old revolver may handle twice it's design pressure and show no sign of failure for hundreds of rounds, while an identical revolver may suffer mechanical failure on the first firing of that same overpressure cartridge. You don't know until you go too far.
It's like throwing pebbles at windows - if you keep throwing bigger pebbles you will eventually break the window, and now you know what size pebble you should NOT have thrown. The trick is to use discretion and maturity and stop before you break the window. Some people might even say that throwing rocks at windows wasn't a terribly clever idea to start with.
Dingus is right as usual, the parts that tend to fail first on the webley revolvers is the hinge pin and latch lock mechanisms. They stretch or wear abnormally from too much hot ammo and it's easy to recognise when you find one - the hinges and latches are loose. Some of them are downright floppy.
Numrich sells MKVI Screws they fit they should be better steel but you dont want the screws to hard eh or they will bust thru the latch bottom on the right hand side where there is very little metal.
The latch screw bending is a warning your shooting to hot a loads.
To fix or improve a bent latch screw just lay it on a vise top with the head over the side find the bend have it humped up and use a hammer or piece of steel shaped to fit around the screw so it wont fly out then tap it.
There pretty soft easy to straiten, you should not have to buy a new screw just because of a bend.
I have seen some screws that had to be tossed they bent at the very end where the threads are.
Any good machinist should be able to make you a better stronger latch screw.
It wont hurt to have a stronger screw but dont start hoter loading the gun because of that is my advise.
I've made new pins by grinding down regular grade capscrews. Using harder material in the pins would not make the action any stronger because the frames are made from soft material the same as the pin. Using a harder pin would make the frame hingepin ports more susceptible to stretching. It's better to have the hinge pins as the weak point because it's much simpler to build a new pin than it is to fix a damaged frame.
The soft steel in the webley frames might seem like a bad thing, but in fact the softer steel is probably the reason that the webley revolvers are so robust - harder steel would be more brittle and actually more susceptible to stress cracking and failure.
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