Welding stainless

More importantly...how does the back side of the slide look?
Was it purged during the process?
Penetration %?
A surface bead is NOT structural integrity.

There were only three pictures shown on that particular job. There was no discussion of purging, penetration, etc, it was generally about the process being beyond normal welding.

Other jobs, for example, were on cracked top straps on revolvers which were put back into use. Put back into use presumes there was structural integrity - particularly in the US with it's high ratio per capita of slip and fall lawyers running around looking for clients for their next lawsuit.

I doubt many gunsmiths in the US (and whoever provides them with their acts and omissions insurance coverage) would say "good to go" and give their customer back a rifle or handgun that had the potential to blow up when fired after the welding job.

I am not a gunsmith nor am I a welder, my father was a welder/millwright and my grandfather a machinist; that and occasionally hanging out in the shops of local gunsmiths like Bill Leeper and Martin Hagn doesn't qualify me for anything other than being interested in gunsmithing operations.

But as perhaps an interesting trivia point, I did spend most of last year as the operations manager trying to get the failed carcass of what was once Montana Rifle Company up and running again. Among the records I found were one where 84 cracked receivers for their Professional Hunter series rifles were sent off to have the cracks welded. Records showed the actions were destined to be used to build .505 Gibbs, 416 Rigby, 460 Weatherby, etc. rifles.

The records show the returned actions went straight into the final fitting and finishing stage on the upper floor.

In contrast, in another case of fixing defects, badly warped castings due to core slump were not rejected and returned to the company doing the casting. Instead, shop workers were given hydraulic presses and jigs made by PTG to straighten them out as best they could. The straightened castings were then sent to a business back east for heat treating and annealing before returning to MRC where those castings were then put into the CNC fixtures in the Haas machines and turned into a MRC action. (And many of them were hell for the shop as when those receivers were blued after heat treating and annealing, the bluing had a mottled appearance).

I remember that well because I was mildly curious about heat treating and annealing before doing the CNC operations to turn them into receivers; I would have thought they'd heat treat and anneal after the machining operations were completed. I think I might have scanned and emailed Bill Leeper some of that paperwork for his amusement...

The difference (to me), is there was no paper trail evidence of any heat treating/annealing of the cracked receivers after welding, as there was for the banana shaped castings that were bent back into a shape that would fit into the fixtures in the CNC machines for machining into actions. Suggests that the welding was pretty good as done, perhaps.

That's about all I can contribute to the discussion... other than to circle back to the initial post with a bolt reshape job Bill did on a couple of my Huskys because I found the blued Mannlicher look much more pleasing to the eye than the stock silvery round ball bolt the rifle came with. How Bill converted the original stem and ball bolt to the Mannlicher style, I can't recall:



 
Chuck,
Seek a craftsman who is proficient at engraving &/or checkering bolt knobs,if you decide to use the existing handle.

Is your swing safety cocking the firing pin (2nd pic) & disconnecting the trigger per design.
(can't tell by pic)

Appears handle at sweep touches the stock inlet-not good per an accuracy standpoint.
(handle touches the receiver on the underside of handle boss...only)

Handle cross section seems compromised to clear scope ocular lens w/ low rings.
 
If it was not purged and had a sugared root, could it be ground out and Tig backfilled and machined flush?

Depends on how much carbon was pulled from the parent material by the atmosphere w/o a purge.
Color match would NOT be close on the back side if/when a purge wasn't used.

Titamium is very critical of the issue....being improperly welded.
 
The swing safety is in the fire position and the rifle is cocked in that picture. The bolt handle is not touching the stock. But there isn’t wild gaps either. The bolt handle will clear a scope in low rings and will super low rings as well. Steve Heilman did the bolt work. Here is the finished rifle.

eO3A3PR.jpg
 
Depends on how much carbon was pulled from the parent material by the atmosphere w/o a purge.
Color match would NOT be close on the back side if/when a purge wasn't used.

Titamium is very critical of the issue....being improperly welded.

Do you dye pen critical welds when completed?
 
TIG welding generates intense heat that causes the metal to react with oxygen in the air. The resulting oxidation makes the weld look bad, and it also makes the weld weaker than it should be. To protect the weld at its hottest, TIG welders stream an inert gas (argon, helium, or a mix of the two) over the weld. The inert gas doesn’t react with the weld, and it pushes oxygen out of the way of the weld.

Unshielded TIG welds look terrible, with lots of pitting and spatter. There will also be a lot of black crud on top of the bead from oxidation. Unshielded TIG welds are weaker than they should be, and subject to cracking and (eventually) breaking. The shield gas is a vital part of TIG welding.

This process works great for steel, aluminum, copper, and many other metals. It doesn’t work as well for stainless steel. With stainless, the chromium mixed into the alloy can burn off on the back side of the weld as well as the front side. If this happens, the back of the weld joint will be black and covered with rough specks. Welders call this effect “sugaring.”
 
Do you dye pen critical welds when completed?

Dye penetrate is used for crack detection...ONLY & is easily fooled w/a thin application of lacquer that is not mechanically removed prior to dye penetrate.

Magnetic Particle Inspection or X-Ray is used for structural integrity.

ex- Dye Penetrant Insp
A visible crack in a hyd line "B" nut w/an application of clear lacquer/enamel will NOT be visible w/ dye penetrate, since the NDI (Non Destructive Inspection) does not allow acids/harsh chemical use to prep surfaces for development.


TIG welding generates intense heat that causes the metal to react with oxygen in the air. The resulting oxidation makes the weld look bad, and it also makes the weld weaker than it should be. To protect the weld at its hottest, TIG welders stream an inert gas (argon, helium, or a mix of the two) over the weld. The inert gas doesn’t react with the weld, and it pushes oxygen out of the way of the weld.

Unshielded TIG welds look terrible, with lots of pitting and spatter. There will also be a lot of black crud on top of the bead from oxidation. Unshielded TIG welds are weaker than they should be, and subject to cracking and (eventually) breaking. The shield gas is a vital part of TIG welding.

This process works great for steel, aluminum, copper, and many other metals. It doesn’t work as well for stainless steel. With stainless, the chromium mixed into the alloy can burn off on the back side of the weld as well as the front side. If this happens, the back of the weld joint will be black and covered with rough specks. Welders call this effect “sugaring.”

You need a better understanding of the TIG weld process than you've learned from Wiki....since you haven't a CLUE.
 
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chuck,
Those 2 LH rifles need to put meat on the table-Look Good!

Assuming that you have a S/Steel rifle that you want a bolt handle to duplicate those 2 rifles configuration.
The '03 Spfld,'64 Model 70 Winny bolt handle is a specific design.
Meaning that a bolt handle for a Mauser or Rem is adaptable but NOT a direct replacement.
 
Dye penetrate is used for crack detection...ONLY & is easily fooled w/a thin application of lacquer that is not mechanically removed prior to dye penetrate.

Magnetic Particle Inspection or X-Ray is used for structural integrity.

Mag will only give you cracks as well, not a whole volumetric inspection and then on ferrous metals only. Dye will give the same or better results on all materials. Neither will tell you about full penetration of a weld or internal defects. Only RT can do that.

Do you have radiography done on your welds?
 
Mag will only give you cracks as well, not a whole volumetric inspection and then on ferrous metals only. Dye will give the same or better results on all materials. Neither will tell you about full penetration of a weld or internal defects. Only RT can do that.

Do you have radiography done on your welds?


Yes,I have for certification(s) & critical Surety welds,in multiple processes.
 
Tig welder is the best for stainless steel, most general welding shops are capable, if you can't find anyone , private message me , I'll do it for you , but you will have to ship it to me in B.C.
 
Yes,I have for certification(s) & critical Surety welds,in multiple processes.

I do RT and other NDE here in the local refinery. Mostly stick, but some tig. I find that the tig guys are the most conscientious about their work. Their welds almost never fail.

They built a large LNG terminal here about 10yrs ago. Mostly stainless and a lot of that was tig. Some of those welds were a work of art. Those guys would walk the cup on a 36" and leave perfect fish scales behind. Hard to imagine it was done by hand. Beautiful welds.
 
TIG welding generates intense heat that causes the metal to react with oxygen in the air. The resulting oxidation makes the weld look bad, and it also makes the weld weaker than it should be. To protect the weld at its hottest, TIG welders stream an inert gas (argon, helium, or a mix of the two) over the weld. The inert gas doesn’t react with the weld, and it pushes oxygen out of the way of the weld.

Unshielded TIG welds look terrible, with lots of pitting and spatter. There will also be a lot of black crud on top of the bead from oxidation. Unshielded TIG welds are weaker than they should be, and subject to cracking and (eventually) breaking. The shield gas is a vital part of TIG welding.

This process works great for steel, aluminum, copper, and many other metals. It doesn’t work as well for stainless steel. With stainless, the chromium mixed into the alloy can burn off on the back side of the weld as well as the front side. If this happens, the back of the weld joint will be black and covered with rough specks. Welders call this effect “sugaring.”

Unshielded TIG, is not TIG.

Tungsten Inert Gas.

No inert gas, it's just really miserable arc welding, with ugly results, and no filler. So where did you copy this otherwise useless bit of info from?

I know this from the personal experience of having rolled the caster wheel of the TIG machine, over the gas delivery hose. It wasn't pretty!

This particularly pointless info above has no relevance to speak of, as the expectation is that there WILL be a proper shield of inert gas around the part. If you are doing large welds on sheet, you back purge the seam, or otherwise provide shielding gas, or you can accept the sugaring that results, which can be pretty ugly. A whizz wheel on a die grinder will take care of a lot of it, and generally, if you are not doing work that needs to look good on both sides, it's not a problem.
 
Rick,
Micro & Laser has it's applications w/ limitations.

More importantly...how does the back side of the slide look?
Was it purged during the process?
Penetration %?
A surface bead is NOT structural integrity.

Most people are happy to pay for the visual work... very few for the work that it takes to actually fix something.. eh?
 
Dye penetrate is used for crack detection...ONLY & is easily fooled w/a thin application of lacquer that is not mechanically removed prior to dye penetrate.

Magnetic Particle Inspection or X-Ray is used for structural integrity.

ex- Dye Penetrant Insp
A visible crack in a hyd line "B" nut w/an application of clear lacquer/enamel will NOT be visible w/ dye penetrate, since the NDI (Non Destructive Inspection) does not allow acids/harsh chemical use to prep surfaces for development.




You need a better understanding of the TIG weld process than you've learned from Wiki....since you haven't a CLUE.

Would love to see you mag something that's austenitic, laughing.

Dye will show you a lot more than a crack, xray on a gun part wouldn't be cost effective. While we are at it lets get some eddy current going on our guns for inspection. Could do the whole thing in no time. ;)
 
I do RT and other NDE here in the local refinery. Mostly stick, but some tig. I find that the tig guys are the most conscientious about their work. Their welds almost never fail.

They built a large LNG terminal here about 10yrs ago. Mostly stainless and a lot of that was tig. Some of those welds were a work of art. Those guys would walk the cup on a 36" and leave perfect fish scales behind. Hard to imagine it was done by hand. Beautiful welds.

We could be friends. :cool:
 
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