All the stocks are from tula with a few from Izzy. And what would the tula mark do to increase its value? It was refurbed and no one is arguing that. Refurbs can entail stock replacements. Stock matched to rifle, which is what I said earlier in this post. There would be no difference if the logo wasn't there or if there was a bunch of ###'s on the number. The whole gun is BBQ painted for Chr sake
westrifle '49
- Thread starter emmab
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No,No,Emmab.I think you're reading me wrong bud. I agree with you 100%. The mark on the rifle wouldn't increase it's value,the value comes from the fact that it's a '49 sks and that in of itself makes it interesting
{different firing pin,gas tube,bayo ect.} What I believe is the cause for concern is that someone other than Tula arsenal is marking stocks to match them to any given rifle. A force matched stock has,until your shown rifle,always followed a certain protocol that is ###X'ing out old serial # and stamping the matched one.The fact that yours seems to have the Tula "star" hand engraved is a new situation and hence raises suspicions as to what else might be going on over seas. The cover seems legitimate to me for what it's worth....Come to think of it, I have a '54 Izzy w/ laminate refurb. the stock only has 1 serial number and no Izzy triangle or Tula star.......maybe the Chinese refurb'd it!
{different firing pin,gas tube,bayo ect.} What I believe is the cause for concern is that someone other than Tula arsenal is marking stocks to match them to any given rifle. A force matched stock has,until your shown rifle,always followed a certain protocol that is ###X'ing out old serial # and stamping the matched one.The fact that yours seems to have the Tula "star" hand engraved is a new situation and hence raises suspicions as to what else might be going on over seas. The cover seems legitimate to me for what it's worth....Come to think of it, I have a '54 Izzy w/ laminate refurb. the stock only has 1 serial number and no Izzy triangle or Tula star.......maybe the Chinese refurb'd it!
Russian or Ukrainian counterfeit industry wouldn't use a chisel, they would use a mill machine to make a proper stamp...
So, you are insinuating that the stamps were applied in Canada then?
no, I was just clearing up on counterfeit industry. If Russians counterfeit something they do it professionally. I'm 100% sure there is no interest to fake SKS stock...Star could had been added by some idiot soldier at the arsenal 20-30 years ago because his idiot superior told him to. I remember when my sergeant made me carving stars on the barracks doors, and I'm not even close to being an artist
The "chiseled" star doesn't make the gun fake... It just adds some mystery
Great point! I agree that something is fishy. We all taked about Ivan, forced to use his teeth to chew out the longer spike groove, so maybe one of them stole a knife and hacked in the star. Maybe. I, myself wouldn't bother trying to spruce up a stock and I'm sure Westrifle has better things to do than make a half ass attempt at a useless embellishment, so who knows? Why don't we ask him? Its generated a lot more interest than one with nothing on it! Hard to slip anything by this group!!! Cheers
Wow I just seat back and watch how much fun we can have on CGN.
Now did anyone wanted to ask me a question first before assuming anything. I know that certain kids on CGN have nothing to do but offend me in any possible way, but might I asked you who did bring you 1949 to Canada and who changed pinning job for SKS from frankpinned to rivet pinned. I would tell you it was people who work at www.westrifle.com If anyone tells you something different they are full of sh@^&t. We flew over there and talked to engineers and military plant and government officials and persue them to change it because our market you people were telling us how frankpinned is ugly and how it destroys serial number.
Now lets get back to 1949. All 1949 with spike bayo that recently came on the market came from one importer it is us. None of the importers went to Russia or Ukraine and handpicked those you know why. They could not justify time and effort in doing that.Or they did not have certain relationship that we do.
Now about the rifle itself the only part that was redone is the wooden stock. It is not the best job but it is all that was available to us. On all other parts and all stamps on every rifle were put in the year of production which is 1949. If you never seen one and you offend youpers or me. Fly to Tula plant museum pay about 50 buck to get in (Non resident pay more ) take a picture of 1949 stamp and then realize that you wasted your money.
Now you have seen Museum and you might be more knowledgeable about what you post here and then it will be beneficial to our community so you might not waste your money. May be we should organize a trip to Tula museum now that I think about it. Anyone? I can think of few candidates myself.
If anyone can get their hands on 1949 SKS in perfect and original shape you must be related to Medvedev family and live in Russia. I have been to a few museums in Russia all 1949 stock either badly beat up or missing stock. You see even they can not get it in mint shape.
Please find me any picture if you can of 1949 SKS with spike bayou and we can compare it to westrifle SKS. Then we can decide if it is fake or not. By the way the time when 20 dollars were a lot of money has passed. Russians can afford to travel and party now. If don't believe me go to Sochi I dare you.
NOW THIS POST WAS NOT MADE TO OFFEND ANY ONE.
I just try to state oblivious to the public who doesn't know the facts.
Alex
Now did anyone wanted to ask me a question first before assuming anything. I know that certain kids on CGN have nothing to do but offend me in any possible way, but might I asked you who did bring you 1949 to Canada and who changed pinning job for SKS from frankpinned to rivet pinned. I would tell you it was people who work at www.westrifle.com If anyone tells you something different they are full of sh@^&t. We flew over there and talked to engineers and military plant and government officials and persue them to change it because our market you people were telling us how frankpinned is ugly and how it destroys serial number.
Now lets get back to 1949. All 1949 with spike bayo that recently came on the market came from one importer it is us. None of the importers went to Russia or Ukraine and handpicked those you know why. They could not justify time and effort in doing that.Or they did not have certain relationship that we do.
Now about the rifle itself the only part that was redone is the wooden stock. It is not the best job but it is all that was available to us. On all other parts and all stamps on every rifle were put in the year of production which is 1949. If you never seen one and you offend youpers or me. Fly to Tula plant museum pay about 50 buck to get in (Non resident pay more ) take a picture of 1949 stamp and then realize that you wasted your money.
Now you have seen Museum and you might be more knowledgeable about what you post here and then it will be beneficial to our community so you might not waste your money. May be we should organize a trip to Tula museum now that I think about it. Anyone? I can think of few candidates myself.
If anyone can get their hands on 1949 SKS in perfect and original shape you must be related to Medvedev family and live in Russia. I have been to a few museums in Russia all 1949 stock either badly beat up or missing stock. You see even they can not get it in mint shape.
Please find me any picture if you can of 1949 SKS with spike bayou and we can compare it to westrifle SKS. Then we can decide if it is fake or not. By the way the time when 20 dollars were a lot of money has passed. Russians can afford to travel and party now. If don't believe me go to Sochi I dare you.
NOW THIS POST WAS NOT MADE TO OFFEND ANY ONE.
I just try to state oblivious to the public who doesn't know the facts.
Alex
I do not know where those SKSs came from, but their stamps and year marks are not real Tula plant stamps. It is 100% fake.
Somebody tried increased a "collectable value" of those rifles, but did not have a real stamp and did this work awkwardly with chisel and kitchen knife
Stalin's inspectors would execute any gunsmith for this kind of work.
P.S. Did you see any other soviet firearm with so ugly stamps like that?
Ohh ask any gunsmith how much it would cost to make fake one. Divide by 10 you get price in Russia. Cost per hour in Canada is 60 dollars. Russia is 40 and up. Also manufacturing of firearms is done by license facility other wise it is illegal manufacturing and it is I believe around 5 years in jail. If you think straight it is impossible to make fake SKS. Impossible to Export it and cost wise it would be stupid to do.
So there you go! Right from the horses mouth so to speak. Ignorance is bliss and making sweeping statements just proves a lack of education. I never had any doubts about Westrifles ethical credentials and one just needs to do some reading to reach the same conclusion. From the start we all said the stock was matched to the rifle. Period. Where all this counterfeit sh%t came from is beyond me, and I'm sure that's the same feeling for most of the members on this site. I can understand that Westrifle would feel slighted to have to read these allegations, which is beyond common sense anyway.
Hmmm;Hang on their Westrifle sks,are you saying the "Tula stamp" on his stock is A: a stamping,and B:it IS authentic to the Tula arsenal?
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Emmab;Are you responding to my question of westrifle? If you are,I don't understand how post #8 answers my querries. I thought my question was direct enough,I mean he comes on both guns blazing{sort of speak} and won't answer a direct question/questions?......Has me thinking.....and not in a good way!
Cripes, I hope I didn't start this by being the first to use the word "fake". IT WAS A JOKE! Look at any other 49 or pictures of them and you'll see this gun is the real deal. The different stampings from later SKS are part of what make the rifle cool and collectible in the first place.
Its an awesome gun, its real, and I'd be proud to add it to my safe!
Its an awesome gun, its real, and I'd be proud to add it to my safe!
What exactly did you want to know. The stamping on top metal cover is real and authentic. It is called Italic stamp ( if I translate it from Russian). Why is it different from all other I will ask next time I am there. If I can get an answer I will let you know.
Regards,
Regards,
yes, we took that as a joke but others members claims tula would never chisel style stamp their top cover like that cos it looks fake but i say thats what all the 1949 i have seen out of the US looks like and bare in mind, the US have an import ban in place so they havent gotten any new import of last 17 years so are the US part of a bigger fraud?
if the russian gonna fake something as small as a top cover then why couldnt they make it look better ? why make its so obvious , unless the obvious is what they wanted . like i said why make the top cover looking like a timex when the rest are a rolex?
i for one prefer the 1949 top cover to look different , part of its uniqueness.
OK , this is another topic, its about a refurb . heres is another obvious , the stamp on the stock but you are assuming all refurb are done at the tula factory , well its not, some are contracted out , thats is why the refurb are so varied , i already mentioned that in my sticky .
Curtton; I've read your sticky many times and because of the information in it I wouldn't assume ALL refurbishments are done there. Having said that,that is an attempt at reproducing the "Tula Star" on the stock....agree?
Emmab;Thanks for clearing that up for me! Enjoy that rifle BTW..wish I had a '49
Emmab;Thanks for clearing that up for me! Enjoy that rifle BTW..wish I had a '49
I have been following this thread with great interest. I have been letting the experts talk up till now. I am adding my 2 cents worth because no one else has made a comment on this. I am familiar with mr yoopers site.
page 18.Scroll down a bit and there is a picture of both the Tula and Izzy stocks and both have a similar hand drawn appearance to the factory stamp[/QUOTE]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]This is a stock from a 1949 Russian SKS that has gone through the refurb process several times. Note the Tula star and below it the year of 1949. This stock fits the Russian spike bayonet.[/FONT]
I am sorry but the stock marking stamps on yoopers sight look NOTHING like the stock stamps on the OP rifle. You can clearly see on yoopers sight that the stamps are crisp square factory applied stamps, with the laquer varnish over the stamp (one the lower rifle), They are not " a similar hand drawn appearance".
PS I don't know why the first pic is huge sorry
Again this post is ONLy for the stock stamps in question NOT the stamp on the receiver cover.
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