What a difference a throat makes!

BUM - have you considered trying Ramshot Big Game with the 286gr TSX? It is a touch slower than RL-15 but it is much denser and you could get quite a bit more into the case.
 
1899 said:
BUM - have you considered trying Ramshot Big Game with the 286gr TSX? It is a touch slower than RL-15 but it is much denser and you could get quite a bit more into the case.
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I have to ask where you have found Ramshot Big Game powder..... I've never been able to find any, at least down here.
 
I haven't seen any in some time. I did buy some Ramshot Magnum at Omineca Sports last year and they had some then (not any more though). They have a pre-buy going on at Nechako Outdoor so I would look at them first. I believe Rayner Shine has a good selection of powders and would ask them too.

I have to say that I like Ramshot's small spherical grains - much like the old H870 - and I am going to be using more of it in the future.
 
BUM, have you tried using a faster powder with the 286 gr TSX? If a case full of 4350 only got 1950 in my rifle, I would switch to 4320 and be sure to get more velocity. From there it would be 4895 or similar burning rate until I got to at least 2300 with that bullet.

Ted
 
At the time I was in Inuvik so sourcing powder was problematic and 4350 was the fastest I had on hand. I may try 4320 or 4895 eventually but with excellent home grown bullets like the Matrix I'm not sure why I would bother with the Barnes, unless this mob down here follows through on their bright ideas to ban lead bullets.
 
I've got a couple of Swedes that are like this too.

I'm using the 140 grain SST's, and the cannelure is well out past the mouth of the brass.

I thought it was a bit odd until I got hold of some real Swedish military surplus ammo - man the bullets themselves are long on that stuff! I never actually measured it, but it seems "real" swedish mauser ammo is about 1/3" longer than North American factory ammo.

Why not? said:
Here's my SAKO 6.5X55 with a 129 gr SST seated out to just touch the lands.



Nice that it still fits and feeds from then magazine.
Ted
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Well put, Ted.

I have noticed this as well, especially in European calibers/rifles, for years. But I think we have to bear in mind, at least for the Husqvarnas, that the rifles / barrels are all at least a half century old & for the 9.3x57's, at least 75 years old, so I would presume there is a fair bit of throat / leade wear to factor into the equation as well. I can seat spitzer bullets out almost 0.050" longer in one of my Husqvarna Model 46's 6.5x55's compared to one of the new Husqvarna barrels.
 
The Old Man has a custom Mauser in 7x57. I've never measured the throat but he says it has a long throat. The hypothesis is that it was throated with a reamer designed for the old military 175gr RN load.
 
jamesharrison said:
Well put, Ted.

I have noticed this as well, especially in European calibers/rifles, for years. But I think we have to bear in mind, at least for the Husqvarnas, that the rifles / barrels are all at least a half century old & for the 9.3x57's, at least 75 years old, so I would presume there is a fair bit of throat / leade wear to factor into the equation as well. I can seat spitzer bullets out almost 0.050" longer in one of my Husqvarna Model 46's 6.5x55's compared to one of the new Husqvarna barrels.
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I understand, however how many rounds would it take to lengthen a throat an appreciable amount using a cartridge that operates at around 45,000 CUP, or in the case of the 9.3X57 at less than 38,000?

My guess is they were chambered with long throats to start with. That doesn't explain the new barrels having short throats, unless perhaps, they were to be reamer-finished when headspace was set.
Ted
 
Ted - take a look at some of this old ammo:
93x57RWS_zpsf3036286.jpg


9x57 is 3rd from the right and 9.3x57 is 2nd from the right. Look at the shape of those bullets plus the OAL. It is easy to see how a modern spritzer or semi-spritzer would have to be seated very far out indeed in a rifle throated to accept these old factory loads.
x57family_zpsa7843045.jpg
 
In the early seventies I had a M-70 30-06 that at times would pull the 180 gr. speer Rd Nose bullets out of the cases when I unloaded a live round. I did not reload then a friend of mine did it all for me. I took rifle and reloads up to see Don Epps. He examined both and explained to me that my M-70 had very little leade, and what all this meant and how it all related to pressure, cartridge length, seating depth etc. He suggested we increase the leade or throat depth of the rifle, which they did. No charge I might add. The immediate results were no more pulled bullets. The next thing I noticed is that accuracy improved with those reloads.
Later when I got a few bucks a head I purchased all my own rifle reloading stuff and have been at it ever since. But I never forgot that early lesson on leade/ throat and cartridge length and how it relates to pressure and accuracy that Don Epps taught me.
Glad you brought the subject up Ted.
 
Ted:

Do you think this all boils down to the amount of throat wear in existence on our 9.3mm rifles, especially given that 99.9% of the 9.3x57's (almost all of which are now at least 3/4 of a century young) & likely some amount North of 60% of the 9.3x62's made came out of 1 factory?

Your new iron having had a different (non-worn, non-Husqvarna) reamer through it, I beleive, supports this hypothesis.

Regardless, all of the .366's are FUN!!!!!
 
There are a lot of new / like new HVA M/640/46A/46 rifles imported by Trade Ex and they all have long throats. 1899 is right with the bullet shape being one factor for this situation.
But as a general rule, all my 9.3s including 7 9.3X62 have long throats, the older models or the modern rifles.
 
I haven't yet measured how much freebore I have in my T3, 9.3 X 62, but the clip magazine allows up to a COL of 3.37" for the 286's in Nosler and Hornady and the 270gr Speer. I also can use as much RL-17 as a seated 286 Nosler Partition permits with significant compression without pressure signs. I will find out for sure, but I expect that even at 3.37" there is still significant freebore similar to Weatherby.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
jamesharrison said:
Ted:

Do you think this all boils down to the amount of throat wear in existence on our 9.3mm rifles, especially given that 99.9% of the 9.3x57's (almost all of which are now at least 3/4 of a century young) & likely some amount North of 60% of the 9.3x62's made came out of 1 factory?

Your new iron having had a different (non-worn, non-Husqvarna) reamer through it, I beleive, supports this hypothesis.

Regardless, all of the .366's are FUN!!!!!
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You are right on! The Model 70 was chambered with a new reamer that obviously has a "standard" (whatever that is) leade in it, and consequently bullets must be seated much deeper.

Baribal's point that all the Europen rifles are essentially throated the same cannot be missed either.
Ted
 
Ted,

They are all a bit different, but have a much longer engaging cone than does any (except maybe Weatherby :) ) American SAAMI chamber. As an example;
SAAMI say, for the .35 Whelen, that the engaging cone should be at least 2 degrees 30'
CIP gives, for the 9.3X62's engaging cone 0 degrees, 21', 29" ....

That makes a huge difference.
 
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