What bullets you use for 45-70?

[Slamfire]

Penetration is vital for Texas heart shots I suppose. They're out of Texas aren't they?

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

"Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester."
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html

Garrett doesn't think it's bunk.

It ain't bunk fer sure. I've been pushing most all my hardcast bullets in weights of 405-535 at blackpowder velocities for years and the performance on game and targets have well proven their worth. Best part is, they don't beat up the shooter.

 

[fingers284]

You don't specify what bullet they are using for their tests. If it was a relatively soft point it probably expands considerably more at the extra velocity (probably no expansion at all at the slower velocity) which would produce more drag/quicker slow down.

 

[brybenn]

That is not a function of speed or energy... it is the result of the stability and design of that particular bullet... suggesting that MORE energy results in LESS penetration (all else being equal) is as assine as insisting that driving 60 km/hr will result in arriving at your destination more quickly than if you are travelling 100 km/hr.

If you want to discuss and compare depth of penetration there are many factors to table, simply stating that a slower bullet results in deeper penetration is faulty logic and misleading.

Laws of physics. The faster bullet transfer more energy faster than the slower one. Like slapping water. Go slow and your hand glides thru. Smack it fast and you meet more resistance
Also I have tried this with 500 gr Winchester solids in both my 45/70 and 458 wm. 1280 fps vs 2200 fps. The 45/70 out penetrated my 458wm. Neither bullet showed signs of failure. Except for rifling marks both could be loaded again

 

[brybenn]

If i were to repeat this with my 500 gr woodlieghs round nose softs I'm more than certain my 45/70 would out penetrate my 458 wm as expansion wouldn't likely occur in the 45/70 but I know my 458 wm will cause them to expand

Too much velocity such as the 460 wby may not always be best for penetration. The experts who hunt really big mean things don't like th ultra fast stuff with solids.

The Alaskan wilderness or some such organization tested many calibers for bear defense. It found between 1400-1600 fps 458 diameter penetrate better than 2000+ fps

 

[Slamfire]

Laws of physics. The faster bullet transfer more energy faster than the slower one. Like slapping water. Go slow and your hand glides thru. Smack it fast and you meet more resistance...

No details on your test. The bullet travels through air then strikes your unknown test medium. Energy transfer occurs at the air/test medium interface but you claim both bullets remained intact so bullet deformation isn't a variable. The faster bullet, having more momentum, will overcome resistance better so will penetrate more deeply.

 

[Suther]

You don't specify what bullet they are using for their tests. If it was a relatively soft point it probably expands considerably more at the extra velocity (probably no expansion at all at the slower velocity) which would produce more drag/quicker slow down.

If you look into it, they (garrett) are talking about a 500gr hornady (says right in my post.) It is a copper clad steel jacketed flat nose bullet, also referred to as an fmj solid.

 

[Slamfire]

Yes - and some brands of solids or FMJ bullets are prone to penetration-limiting failure.

 

[hoytcanon]

Laws of physics. The faster bullet transfer more energy faster than the slower one. Like slapping water. Go slow and your hand glides thru. Smack it fast and you meet more resistance
Also I have tried this with 500 gr Winchester solids in both my 45/70 and 458 wm. 1280 fps vs 2200 fps. The 45/70 out penetrated my 458wm. Neither bullet showed signs of failure. Except for rifling marks both could be loaded again

Laws of physics??? Lol.

All else being equal... more stored energy results in more energy transfer, from moving to full stop... all else being equal this results in deeper penetration.

Laws of physics = if the projectile containing more energy penetrates less, then something else is going on... another factor is at play. To simply say "shoot it slower for more penetration" is misleading and overly simplified (wrong) as it does not address the other factors at play.