What can LE/Mil Personel own?

[KevinB]

So a CF member can not take home his 30 round mags to use with their AR15...nor can they be excluded from civilian regulations by military authorities for their civilian firearms.

Thats a questionable issue, for years after the 94 mag law, troops were allowed to go home with their mags, then one JAG got worried and boom, no mags at home.

However after that until 2005 I know, for shoots where the CF allowed personnel to use personal weapons, they also allowed the use of military mags -- this was on base however...

There was a small fiasco in 2004 when a team from 1VP got accused of using F/A on personnel weapons, the guns got confiscated by the MP's until the weapons techs made it clear the guns where all semi - and the accuser (a huge KNOB) showed his ass. No one cared that I had signed out 75 30rd mags for the event as it was on base.

 

[koldt]

There was a small fiasco in 2004 when a team from 1VP got accused of using F/A on personnel weapons, the guns got confiscated by the MP's until the weapons techs made it clear the guns where all semi - and the accuser (a huge KNOB) showed his ass. No one cared that I had signed out 75 30rd mags for the event as it was on base.

Don't forget about the fire.

That was a fun match, wasn't it.

 

[KevinB]

Was a lot funner for you since no-one came to your team to conficate things or tell your boss you where a HUGE criminal...

Yes I had forgotten my team was responsible for the tracer fire -- I'm trying to remember if that was 'lefty' or the young Pte on the team.

 

[V29189***]

Some retail stores offer Military discounts.

 

[Squirrley11]

It is important to note that CF members can not represent themselves as purchasing for the CF in order to get around export restrictions or requirements. Some companies offer deals to military members which is different as it is a means of increasing business and totally above board. The difference becomes when the export requirements require that the goods be sold to military or LE departments. A young soldier I know got in a great deal of trouble by having items shipped to the unit's address in an effort to obtain items that are not sold to individuals. As mentioned above, unless the items are CF issue....a soldier is just like everyone else when it comes to privately owned property....same regs, same use. So a CF member can not take home his 30 round mags to use with their AR15...nor can they be excluded from civilian regulations by military authorities for their civilian firearms.

Is that for sure? My understanding is a at least for police the exemption is anything owned for work purposes. So a police officer could take his duty mags home and load them in his personal firearm and he is not commiting any offense. I am not sure if this is th same for the military but I blieve it is I think the only thing would be a NDA charge for misappropriation of military equipment. Criminaly I don't think they are committing an offense.

 

[Morpheus32]

Absolutely 100% you can not take home or use your CF issue mags in a personal firearm. Being military does not exclude you from anything in the firearms act or anything else unless it is in the performance of your duties as a CF member. You can not authorized to use CF mags in your personal firearms. Dealt with this extensively on two occasions in recent years. The regs are clear...there is no exemption. Any CO, Officer or NCO who authorizes a soldier to take home their mags is committing an offense...does not matter the cirumstances...as I said, the regs are clear.

Mags were clearly identified as prohibited items under Canadian law, so they were no longer authorized to taken home. They also cracked down on transporting weapons in POMVs.

Unless the soldier is at a range in an official capacity, in uniform and with a service weapon...only then are they allowed to use CF mags. It does not get more cut and dried than that.

Also the rules are much tighter for use of civilian ranges. In many cases, CF firearms can not be used on civilian ranges even if they are civilian templated for the caliber by the CFO.

 

[sprint]

Thats a questionable issue, for years after the 94 mag law, troops were allowed to go home with their mags, then one JAG got worried and boom, no mags at home.

Man.

I still remember the introduction of the range sweep fiascos around 1994 that would happen when a magazine was lost on an advance to contact exercise.

No-duff scale stoppage of action to find and account for a 30 round plastic thermold. Some really wizard stuff.



Prior to that? I think everyone and their dog had their own personally owned 30rnd metal magazines in large quantities. I must have owned 3 dozen. Beats the living dog #### out of me what happened to them all.

 

[Rebel Rouser]

Absolutely 100% you can not take home or use your CF issue mags in a personal firearm. Being military does not exclude you from anything in the firearms act or anything else unless it is in the performance of your duties as a CF member. You can not authorized to use CF mags in your personal firearms. Dealt with this extensively on two occasions in recent years. The regs are clear...there is no exemption. Any CO, Officer or NCO who authorizes a soldier to take home their mags is committing an offense...does not matter the cirumstances...as I said, the regs are clear.

Mags were clearly identified as prohibited items under Canadian law, so they were no longer authorized to taken home. They also cracked down on transporting weapons in POMVs.

Unless the soldier is at a range in an official capacity, in uniform and with a service weapon...only then are they allowed to use CF mags. It does not get more cut and dried than that.

Also the rules are much tighter for use of civilian ranges. In many cases, CF firearms can not be used on civilian ranges even if they are civilian templated for the caliber by the CFO.

There was a guy about 2 years ago in Edmonton that got in a spat with his GF cops where called and she told the responding officers that he had hi-cap mags. They where in his Tac Vest and CF issued mags. He still did get charged with having a prohibited device by the EPS.

 

[Squirrley11]

I just checked the C.C.C. the difference is Police Officers are exempt in the course of their duties or for employment purposes. Therefore a Police officer takes his hi-cap duty mags to the range no issue. For CF it states under the authority of the Canadian Forces. So by taking mags to the range or home and useing them in your personal Firearm you are no longer in the authority of the Canadian Forces as you are breaking their rules and therefore there is no exemption for you.

 

[Bruce from Calgary]

I have a vision...

Back 15 years ago, the Liberals said "Guns should only be used by soldiers and police". So they made the Gun Registry. Then the Government stopped trusting the institutions and the institutions stopped trusting the members...and now we keep all the high cap mags locked up in boxes until they are in use.

Now here is the vision part...eventually through more and more mistrust, all the high capacity mags will be gathered up and held at the Firearms Center where they will be guarded by two special weapons guys holding the only two remaining full auto guns with high cap mags in Canada....and they will each have orders to blow the other away if he makes a move toward the pile of magazines.

 

[MatthewMarchand]

I completely disagree. What is allowed in the military world is NOT safe on civilian ranges. It's possible that lots of soldiers would be safe and proficient, but I (and I'm sure many others) have seen lots of military members that don't know anything about firearms, and just barely handle them safely. Don't forget that most of the CF has minimal exposure to service weapons (basic drills, pwt 1, not much else). Combat Arms soldiers have more, but that doesn't mean they know anything about handling and loading and legally transporting a revolver, or types of shot etc...

I have watched both military and non-military members handling firearms in very unsafe ways, so I don't see a need for different rules outside of a military context.

Valid, there are idiots in uniform. But from my personal point of view, and that of my close associates and friends, some of us deserve a freebie

 

[Demon971]

I have a vision...

Back 15 years ago, the Liberals said "Guns should only be used by soldiers and police". So they made the Gun Registry. Then the Government stopped trusting the institutions and the institutions stopped trusting the members...and now we keep all the high cap mags locked up in boxes until they are in use.

Now here is the vision part...eventually through more and more mistrust, all the high capacity mags will be gathered up and held at the Firearms Center where they will be guarded by two special weapons guys holding the only two remaining full auto guns with high cap mags in Canada....and they will each have orders to blow the other away if he makes a move toward the pile of magazines.

LMAO! Good thing I have a rich imagination, I pictured that perfectly. Very futurama-esque vision indeed.

If the Liberals were still in charge now, the military wouldn't even have firearms anymore (or at least no use for them). I remember many exercises we had in 2003 where we literally had no ammunition to train with. Had to rely on good ol' "Mo rounds". It's like being a six year old again and play "guns n' army n' cops etc" (i.e, "BANG BANG, Brrrrrrap" "Yer dead" "no, I shot you, you're dead"...). Wonderful for professional development, I must say.

 

[MatthewMarchand]

I remember many exercises we had in 2003 where we literally had no ammunition to train with. Had to rely on good ol' "Mo rounds". It's like being a six year old again and play "guns n' army n' cops etc" (i.e, "BANG BANG, Brrrrrrap" "Yer dead" "no, I shot you, you're dead"...). Wonderful for professional development, I must say.

We used to yell BANG with the C7s, and "Buuudget Cut" to simulate the C9s.

 

[pricedo]

Okay...so we've established that some LEO's have authorization from their agencies to carry while off duty.

We've alsoe heard that they are required to either have the weapon in a "ready" state (loaded, holstered) or secured in the same way as the rest of us would.


So where's the problem?

They're simply doing something that most of us feel should be legal for all competent, law-abiding citizens. If I am going to take exception to this, it will be with the fact that I cannot carry, not that they can. I will readily acknowledge that an officer working for a narcotics unit is far more likely to encounter violence during his off-hours than I am.

Because a lot of non-LEO GUNNUTZ are envious. (LIKE ME !!)

Nobody'd ever admit it in 1000 years but it's a guy/power/pizzing contest thing. (Sshhhhh!.....that's supposed to be a secret!)

Being able to carry a concealed handgun is the ego-equivalent of another 6" of ####.

 

[OZZ]

Pot to kettle , YOUR BLACK

That helps a lot. Its really too bad that some of these threads deteriorate so quickly. I guess decorum and consideration are things of the past.

You know, anytime someone asks me about any firearms related question I answer if I know or refer when I do not. There are a lot of people who are new to certain subjects and the best way to learn, I thought, was to ask a question here.

Unfortunately there are some in this community that are only too quick to point out how ridiculous (to them any way) your question may be based on their infinite depth of firearms knowledge and punctuated by their disdain for any question not deemed worthy of asking. I am sure they occupy positions of great importance.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Morpheus32]

We used to yell BANG with the C7s, and "Buuudget Cut" to simulate the C9s.

We don't any more....the old army is nothing like the new army. We have equipment, train hard and are producing the best soldiers for combat that we ever had. There are so many operational options for a troop these days, it is mind boggling. Between JTF2, CSOR, regs and reserves, there is enough to keep everyone interested.

As noted by others....you don't get any special considerations because your military....if your not performing your duty...your bound by the same rules as everyone else when it comes to firearm regs.

And the comment about military weapon handling skills....this last hunting season demonstrated to me, that no one group holds the high ground on handling skills. I got scoped twice this season....

 

[jamiejaf]

We used to yell BANG with the C7s, and "Buuudget Cut" to simulate the C9s.

Ha Ha..i've done that many times. The best i did, was to pack around a 60mm motar after jumping it in, and walking forever... for no apparent reason. I was glad i had no bombs for it. We used to ditch blanks the second we hit the ground, so yelling "budget cut" wasn't such a bad thing after all. LOL.

Military personel can own anything civilians can. But are discouraged to not have any non-issued kit on them during operations(including pig stickers). I've seen one guy packing his own 12 guage pump and a handgun on a live fire and got nailed by the 3 Commando Sgt Major years back. (That was fun to watch.)
Then kit inspections go to frisking for a while.

 

[DMcFaul]

Absolutely 100% you can not take home or use your CF issue mags in a personal firearm. Being military does not exclude you from anything in the firearms act or anything else unless it is in the performance of your duties as a CF member. You can not authorized to use CF mags in your personal firearms. Dealt with this extensively on two occasions in recent years. The regs are clear...there is no exemption. Any CO, Officer or NCO who authorizes a soldier to take home their mags is committing an offense...does not matter the cirumstances...as I said, the regs are clear...

In 2VP we always kept our mags with our gear, where ever that may be (home, the shacks). Only thing we vaulted was our weapons and bolts.

Right or wrong, it happens all the time.