What do you do if...?
- Thread starter CH_Tiger_14
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I wonder at you fellas who think you cannot retrieve a wounded animal without a firearm?
If you have the experience you can tell by the circumstances of the shot and the blood trail whether the animal is going to lay down and die or not... most every time. If they are not hit well enough to go down or lay down in the first 200 yards or so chances are they will survive and you will not find them or jump them for a shot. Most hunters learn early on that waiting for half an hour is common sense before even starting to track a big game animal.
What do you guys do at night when you shoot an animal and it is dark before you find it... do you carry your guns uncased and loaded after legal shooting time?
Your argument for carrying a firearm while breaking the law is fraught with inconsistencies, but I guess if your willing to break the law common sense and ethics are out the window at that point anyway!
If you have the experience you can tell by the circumstances of the shot and the blood trail whether the animal is going to lay down and die or not... most every time. If they are not hit well enough to go down or lay down in the first 200 yards or so chances are they will survive and you will not find them or jump them for a shot. Most hunters learn early on that waiting for half an hour is common sense before even starting to track a big game animal.
What do you guys do at night when you shoot an animal and it is dark before you find it... do you carry your guns uncased and loaded after legal shooting time?
Your argument for carrying a firearm while breaking the law is fraught with inconsistencies, but I guess if your willing to break the law common sense and ethics are out the window at that point anyway!
I guess we just ain't the great hunters you are, BR.
Just so everyone is clear on BR's version of "ethical" hunting, if you can tell by the amount of blood that the animal is not hit well enough to be dead in the first 200 yards, it's acceptable to just abandon to wounded animal and move on to the next. Why go against the odds. It's only an animal, after all.
Yet another example of how ethics are a regional thing and vary from province to province.
BIGREDD said:
Just so everyone is clear on BR's version of "ethical" hunting, if you can tell by the amount of blood that the animal is not hit well enough to be dead in the first 200 yards, it's acceptable to just abandon to wounded animal and move on to the next. Why go against the odds. It's only an animal, after all.
Yet another example of how ethics are a regional thing and vary from province to province.
Maybe Joe you need to understand there are bigger issues here than one wounded animal.
There's no question that it is preferable to track a wounded animal with a firearm but you have to weigh that preference against the reaction of a landowner who discovers you carrying a gun on his property.
Being on the other side of the issue and having found on my property evidence of poaching and having had a very tense confrontation with two criminals in the process of establishing an illegal grow-op, let me assure you that not having a gun in your hands is a good idea. Better yet is not having it with you at all.
If you take a shot on my property to finish an animal and I hear it then life potentially gets very complicated for the both of us. If I'm running my dogs at the time, as I do on a twice daily basis, I don't know whether the shot was at them, me or something else. If I have a gun with me as I frequently do then it's pretty easy to see how that kind of situation can get awkward in a hurry.
Make your own decision but make an informed decision and understand that there are potentially more serious issues at hand than not recovering a wounded animal.
There's no question that it is preferable to track a wounded animal with a firearm but you have to weigh that preference against the reaction of a landowner who discovers you carrying a gun on his property.
Being on the other side of the issue and having found on my property evidence of poaching and having had a very tense confrontation with two criminals in the process of establishing an illegal grow-op, let me assure you that not having a gun in your hands is a good idea. Better yet is not having it with you at all.
If you take a shot on my property to finish an animal and I hear it then life potentially gets very complicated for the both of us. If I'm running my dogs at the time, as I do on a twice daily basis, I don't know whether the shot was at them, me or something else. If I have a gun with me as I frequently do then it's pretty easy to see how that kind of situation can get awkward in a hurry.
Make your own decision but make an informed decision and understand that there are potentially more serious issues at hand than not recovering a wounded animal.
And if you don't have a full 1/2hr till black dark to wait???
Ever see what a coyo-wolf will do to a unrecovered animal, if it means breaking the law to recover game so be it!
I have tracked wounded deer after a 1hr wait that have repeatedly layed down & jumped up again just when you just get in sight! It almost seems as thou a deer will lay on it's wound & stop the blood flow!
Lots of opinions, but I have seem badly wounded deer jump & run. We usually have someone walk off to the side 30' to do nothing other than watch ahead directly in the direction I'm tracking just for that purpose.
While it doesn't happen often, in this country we work with & help any other hunters that wanders into our hunting area to get wounded game & by doing so, show the same respect for other hunters as we do the game.
Ever see what a coyo-wolf will do to a unrecovered animal, if it means breaking the law to recover game so be it!
I have tracked wounded deer after a 1hr wait that have repeatedly layed down & jumped up again just when you just get in sight! It almost seems as thou a deer will lay on it's wound & stop the blood flow!
Lots of opinions, but I have seem badly wounded deer jump & run. We usually have someone walk off to the side 30' to do nothing other than watch ahead directly in the direction I'm tracking just for that purpose.
While it doesn't happen often, in this country we work with & help any other hunters that wanders into our hunting area to get wounded game & by doing so, show the same respect for other hunters as we do the game.
Claybuster said:Maybe Joe you need to understand there are bigger issues here than one wounded animal.
There's no question that it is preferable to track a wounded animal with a firearm but you have to weigh that preference against the reaction of a landowner who discovers you carrying a gun on his property.
Being on the other side of the issue and having found on my property evidence of poaching and having had a very tense confrontation with two criminals in the process of establishing an illegal grow-op, let me assure you that not having a gun in your hands is a good idea. Better yet is not having it with you at all.
QUOTE]
What is your problem having a gun if it's obvious some-one is tracking a wounded animal??? Can you not tell a blood trail from a grow-op or poacher
And just to make it more confusing
NO you cannot posatively tell how bad an animal is hit by the blood trail.
A few years ago one of our better shots fired at a big buck sneaking in from behind our hunt. He felt it was a good shot even thou the animal spun & immediatly dissapeared into the brush. He searched for 15min finding nothing but jump tracks & gave up confused. After the chase he came around a corner in the trail 300yds away & discovered a deer buck laying with NO apparent marks! Upon cleaning discovered a 30-06 bullet hole into but no exit & not even a drop on the animal
NO you cannot posatively tell how bad an animal is hit by the blood trail.
A few years ago one of our better shots fired at a big buck sneaking in from behind our hunt. He felt it was a good shot even thou the animal spun & immediatly dissapeared into the brush. He searched for 15min finding nothing but jump tracks & gave up confused. After the chase he came around a corner in the trail 300yds away & discovered a deer buck laying with NO apparent marks! Upon cleaning discovered a 30-06 bullet hole into but no exit & not even a drop on the animal
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Tracked down a Whitetail shot in the nuts after a snow fall once.
I sit in absolute awe of general magnificence. I have some questions of someone of your remarkable ability.senior said:What is your problem having a gun if it's obvious some-one is tracking a wounded animal??? Can you not tell a blood trail from a grow-op or poacher
When you spot someone at great distances and/or in heavy cover how do you tell the difference between someone hunting illegally on posted land, a poacher or a hunter tracking a wounded animal? Are there certain signs I should look for?
When I hear a shot what are audio characteristics that I need to learn to distinguish whether someone is poaching, target shooting, sniping at my dogs, shooting at me or just taking a wounded animal?
If I confront someone carrying a gun on my property what is the universal good guy sign? Or can you with your refined sense of smell determine the presence of a hunting licence with the appropriate tags by scent alone?. How long did it take to learn this?
Clearly you have SO very much to teach people here.
Just to clarify the position I'm coming from.
First, although I live in the NWT, I am a land owner in Manitoba. I may even own as much or more land than you, CB. And I hunt there regularly as time permits. Not that this in itself means anything, I just want you to understand that I have the same interest in property with regards to hunting as you do. And that I am not some city dweller/poacher/road hunter.
My veiw, right or wrong, or just different is, if someone wounds a deer and it escapes on to my property, I expect them to use every reasonable means to recover that deer. At the end of the season, I don't want to have my property littered with deer carcasses. If I hear shooting and subsequently find someone on my property, I would assume they are retrieving game before I start getting excited about grow-ops and poaching. Would I be happy about them not contacting me first? Of course not . But in the end I don't want to have to explain to a CO why there are dead deer on my property. Or be forced to put my tag on something that has been laying there gut-shot for who knows how long.
I guess a big part of the discrepency in our views would likely stem from the quality of the hunters that frequent different areas. If you are plagued with "less than ideal" hunters, then I suppose you have to put appropriate safe-guards in place. The majority of hunters in the area of my property are upstanding and I would much rather see the game retrieved as cleanly and quickly as possible.
So that's the story behind my posts. I hope this clears up my position.
First, although I live in the NWT, I am a land owner in Manitoba. I may even own as much or more land than you, CB. And I hunt there regularly as time permits. Not that this in itself means anything, I just want you to understand that I have the same interest in property with regards to hunting as you do. And that I am not some city dweller/poacher/road hunter.
My veiw, right or wrong, or just different
is, if someone wounds a deer and it escapes on to my property, I expect them to use every reasonable means to recover that deer. At the end of the season, I don't want to have my property littered with deer carcasses. If I hear shooting and subsequently find someone on my property, I would assume they are retrieving game before I start getting excited about grow-ops and poaching. Would I be happy about them not contacting me first? Of course not . But in the end I don't want to have to explain to a CO why there are dead deer on my property. Or be forced to put my tag on something that has been laying there gut-shot for who knows how long. I guess a big part of the discrepency in our views would likely stem from the quality of the hunters that frequent different areas. If you are plagued with "less than ideal" hunters, then I suppose you have to put appropriate safe-guards in place. The majority of hunters in the area of my property are upstanding and I would much rather see the game retrieved as cleanly and quickly as possible.
So that's the story behind my posts. I hope this clears up my position.
My question is how do you contact the landowner? Do you think they post signs everywhere around their land with their phone number? If I was tracking a deer in a place where there isn't a house for 50 km but I see all those signs, I would just walk in, if there is a house 100 feet away then I would go ask but if not I just walk in.
first try to contact the land owner and if he says u can't go on, then contact a conservation officer and he will sort it all out for u to go get the deer. i was resently hunting geese and one went down in one property over from the one i was hunting in. i asked the land owner and she would not let me on her property. so i called s buddy of mine who is a conservation officer and i dono how but he made it so that i was able to legaly get my goose
cereal83 said:
Usually (don't read always) land is posted because of dwellings, livestock, etc. Land that is 50km from the nearest dwelling, is not usually posted.(edit to add: This does not give you permission to go on the land.) If you have to drive around a bit to find a neighbor to help you locate an owner, then that is just something you have to live with. You should do your best to locate the owner, even if it means your wounded game is still on the loose. If the owner finds you first, there will likely be ramifications.
'Specially if it's arch's dad or two uncles!
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Joe, if your land is in Manitoba I suspect it's a much larger property than mine in S. Ont.
I don't disagree with your view and don't want any more dead carcasses on my property either. It's happened before and well out of season to boot.
The difference is population density and proximity to urban centres. If I hear shots on my property or find someone with a gun I'm inclined from experience to anticipiate the worst until I learn otherwise.
Anyone who contacted me before would have instant permission to find their animal and I'd be happy to help them and bring one of the dogs along. Their ability to find blood trails is a lot better than mine.
The majority of the hunters in my area are also upstanding. As I noted earlier while I've had problems with poachers and druggies to date I haven't had a problem with a legitimate hunter. Regrettably, others in my township have and in a small community word gets around. All it takes is a few jerks to make all of us look bad.
I don't disagree with your view and don't want any more dead carcasses on my property either. It's happened before and well out of season to boot.
The difference is population density and proximity to urban centres. If I hear shots on my property or find someone with a gun I'm inclined from experience to anticipiate the worst until I learn otherwise.
Anyone who contacted me before would have instant permission to find their animal and I'd be happy to help them and bring one of the dogs along. Their ability to find blood trails is a lot better than mine.
The majority of the hunters in my area are also upstanding. As I noted earlier while I've had problems with poachers and druggies to date I haven't had a problem with a legitimate hunter. Regrettably, others in my township have and in a small community word gets around. All it takes is a few jerks to make all of us look bad.
SignGuy said:
Signguy
Do yo have special CO's around your area. Last year the CO in our area just said sorry about your luck. They cannot force a landowner to allow you on their land. Over the past few years we have run into a few antis and each year it gets worse. More are moving up from the city and buying up farms and such.
2 years ago we had one griving his brand new pick up banging a chain on the side of the door, just to disrupt our hunt. He did this on his side of the fence. We tried to have the CO's in to stop him on the fact that he is harassing the animals, but tall they had to say is their hands are tied.
hunting latley consists of this
not to answer the original question. If you know the landowner talk to them. Some are good some are bad. We make the effort to talk to the landowners of the properties we hunt and the adjact properties. Some we know before hand that if a wounded animals crosses to their property, it's gone.
- Location
- Miramichi, NB
Claybuster said:Joe, if your land is in Manitoba I suspect it's a much larger property than mine in S. Ont.
The difference is population density and proximity to urban centres. If I hear shots on my property or find someone with a gun I'm inclined from experience to anticipiate the worst until I learn otherwise.
Yep, this has a lot to do with it. You folks in ON have more people in a few square miles than we do in the whole province of NB -- with that comes more problems, more confrontations, and the need to be more protective.
The only experience I have with land posted for no hunting by anyone is land that is adjacent to old logging areas, mile and miles from the nearest home, out in the boonies. And to clarify, it has never come up where I had to make a choice about following an animal onto such property. I was just asking a hypothetical question to see what others in the situation might do considering there is different circumstances based on where you live.
One argument was brought up about homes on the properties, knowing where the peolpe may be, taking peoples lives into my hands, etc. All very valid points. I don't dispute them at all. Where I sometimes hunt, there are NO dwellings and there is less likely to be someone on the posted land than in the woods across the street where we hunt. Even on land that you are permitted to hunt, you still have to use the same safeguards -- in each case, you have to be sure of your shot, know where other people / hunters are and know what is behind your target -- this argument is not just limited to posted land when trying to recover an animal.
Sometimes I can't figure out why such remote land is posted, and it is none of my business anyways -- maybe it's an anti, maybe its just a cranky oldtimer just looking to keep his land pristine while all around him the rest has been logged to death. Maybe the red 'no hunting by anyone' disk that is there is from years past and he's been too lazy in removing it -- even though I believe it is supposed to be removed / renewed every year. Chances are the owner and / or his family haven't even been to the property in years.
After reading all these posts, I guess I've made a little change to how I'd handle it if I did have to make the choice and decided I want to go look for the animal. First off, I'd try and contact the owner. After about 30 minutes to an hour, if I can't contact the owner, I'm going in for about 20 - 30 minutes (MAX) with my gun loaded. If the search looks like its going to take longer, unload the gun and go deeper, all the while trying to still contact the owner by cell. Is this bending the rules a bit? Sure. But my risk is a lot less than others might think -- maybe that doesn't make it OK, but it is what it is.
Anyway, as I stated earlier, I enjoyed this thread -- despite being labelled stupid, foolish, dangerous, unethical, and a host of other things. I'm married to a military brat -- trust me, I've been called worse.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senior
What is your problem having a gun if it's obvious some-one is tracking a wounded animal??? Can you not tell a blood trail from a grow-op or poacher
I will ignore the ignorant comment above & just ask one more simple question regarding above.
Are you implying you wouldn't go closer to see what was going on if you saw some-one or heard a shot Sounds to me like you would chase them in a fit of rage
"If I confront someone carrying a gun on my property what is the universal good guy sign? "
Maybe you could ask him?? instead of assuming he's a "bad" guy or look DOWN for the blood trail
That doesn't seem to complicated now does it
A land baron like you should be able to figure that out
Originally Posted by senior
What is your problem having a gun if it's obvious some-one is tracking a wounded animal??? Can you not tell a blood trail from a grow-op or poacher
Claybuster said:I sit in absolute awe of general magnificence. I have some questions of someone of your remarkable ability.
When you spot someone at great distances and/or in heavy cover how do you tell the difference between someone hunting illegally on posted land, a poacher or a hunter tracking a wounded animal? Are there certain signs I should look for?
When I hear a shot what are audio characteristics that I need to learn to distinguish whether someone is poaching, target shooting, sniping at my dogs, shooting at me or just taking a wounded animal?
If I confront someone carrying a gun on my property what is the universal good guy sign? Or can you with your refined sense of smell determine the presence of a hunting licence with the appropriate tags by scent alone?. How long did it take to learn this?
Clearly you have SO very much to teach people here.
I will ignore the ignorant comment above
& just ask one more simple question regarding above.Are you implying you wouldn't go closer to see what was going on if you saw some-one or heard a shot
Sounds to me like you would chase them in a fit of rage "If I confront someone carrying a gun on my property what is the universal good guy sign? "
Maybe you could ask him?? instead of assuming he's a "bad" guy or look DOWN for the blood trail
That doesn't seem to complicated now does it
A land baron like you should be able to figure that out
