What is a 'printed action' 'trued action'?
- Thread starter cath8r
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I am sure this will evoke the wrath of SR BR shooters but YES, when I say that my rifles have shot in the 1's and 2's with the occasional 0's (maybe rare, or once is a very long while would be better but it does happen), I DO MEAN multiple groups under calm air.
Some thinner hunting barrels might be 3rds groups. Others like my F class rifles will be 15 to 20rds. All shot at 200yds!
When I test my loads or my rifles, I almost always test at 200yds (F class out at 300m). I do not test in windy conditions because I am looking for what the rifle will do not how well I read the winds.
On calm days during testing, my first F class rifle shot much better then I was expecting. Barrel 1 would hold the 2's after 20rds. The first 10 usually going into the high 1's at 200yds. Any larger group could be blame directly on the driver - missed conditions or just bad shooting.
Barrel 2 has not fared as well with agg's more in the high 2's and low 3's. Yes, I am refering to AGG or AVERAGE ie multiple groups.
Yes Martha, that is 1" or less at 300m. I have made multiple 5rds groups that were 1/2" or so at 300m with barrel 1. My smallest was 1/8" (yes, another 'lucky' result). Unfortunately, with close to 2000rds down the pipe, Mystic 1 is showing signs of age. It still shoots in the high 2's and low 3's out to 300m in calm air. Still accurate enough to cause other F class shooters grief (right Leeper?).
My present 223 is in the early days of load work up. It has shot multiple groups that were 1/2" at 200yds. That would put it in the 2's as far as my math goes. The rather exciting 3rds group that I have posted is my best ever at this range with any rifle.
Yes, it is ONE 3rds group that I have freely admitted was my best at that range. However, it does show performance potential completely out of whack with the components. A rebarreled Savage simply shouldn't do this... EVER. Then back it up with more groups in the 1's and 2's.
I am sure the "pigs will fly" response will soon follow. That's ok. I am as surprised at the groups as most are at yipping at it.
The 'only matters during a match' response I hear all too often is unfortunate because under match conditions, we are testing the SHOOTERS ability to perform MORE then the mechanical performance of the rifle.
I have never been to a match that was calm for more then a minute. I am not a world class wind doper but I do ok.
So when I make a post which reports some result, I do not make it lightly. I test and retest my findings multiple times to ensure that my results are indeed repeatable.
In case you doubt that, ask yourself this. Why do I have 2 near identical f class rifles?
Because I didn't believe the results I was getting with rifle 1 so made the investment to build a second to verify. Rifle 1 is blessed with a hummer of a barrel that has been a joy to shoot and win with. Rifle 2 confirms that with a quality pipe, the savage action can indeed provide a solid lock up with the accuracy potential to go head to head with many LR mega dollar custom actioned rifles.
The present 223 is showing some spectacular results too given the expected performance of the cartridge, bullet and rifle set up. A varmint rifle shouldn't shoot 1/4 min or better.
I have never said that every rebarreled savage will shoot this well. Some barrels don't shoot no matter what you do. Accuracy is determined by the pipe. Everything else we do just extracts the most of the potential.
However, I stand behind my statement that the Savage/Stevens actions can offer a superb platform to build a match accurate rig for little money. Is it suitable for SR BR? NOPE. Bolt lift is too tough for machine gunning.
But would a 14 twist 68gr spitting 6PPC do well in a 1000yd BR match? NOPE. It would likely battle for the bottom of the standings as its short range prowess cannot be applied at those distances. I wonder if the bullet would even make the trip. Another test for another time.
I bet my 223 would be a whole lot easier to drive at that range and would prove MORE ACCURATE.
Jerry
Some thinner hunting barrels might be 3rds groups. Others like my F class rifles will be 15 to 20rds. All shot at 200yds!
When I test my loads or my rifles, I almost always test at 200yds (F class out at 300m). I do not test in windy conditions because I am looking for what the rifle will do not how well I read the winds.
On calm days during testing, my first F class rifle shot much better then I was expecting. Barrel 1 would hold the 2's after 20rds. The first 10 usually going into the high 1's at 200yds. Any larger group could be blame directly on the driver - missed conditions or just bad shooting.
Barrel 2 has not fared as well with agg's more in the high 2's and low 3's. Yes, I am refering to AGG or AVERAGE ie multiple groups.
Yes Martha, that is 1" or less at 300m. I have made multiple 5rds groups that were 1/2" or so at 300m with barrel 1. My smallest was 1/8" (yes, another 'lucky' result). Unfortunately, with close to 2000rds down the pipe, Mystic 1 is showing signs of age. It still shoots in the high 2's and low 3's out to 300m in calm air. Still accurate enough to cause other F class shooters grief (right Leeper?).
My present 223 is in the early days of load work up. It has shot multiple groups that were 1/2" at 200yds. That would put it in the 2's as far as my math goes. The rather exciting 3rds group that I have posted is my best ever at this range with any rifle.
Yes, it is ONE 3rds group that I have freely admitted was my best at that range. However, it does show performance potential completely out of whack with the components. A rebarreled Savage simply shouldn't do this... EVER. Then back it up with more groups in the 1's and 2's.
I am sure the "pigs will fly" response will soon follow. That's ok. I am as surprised at the groups as most are at yipping at it.
The 'only matters during a match' response I hear all too often is unfortunate because under match conditions, we are testing the SHOOTERS ability to perform MORE then the mechanical performance of the rifle.
I have never been to a match that was calm for more then a minute. I am not a world class wind doper but I do ok.
So when I make a post which reports some result, I do not make it lightly. I test and retest my findings multiple times to ensure that my results are indeed repeatable.
In case you doubt that, ask yourself this. Why do I have 2 near identical f class rifles?
Because I didn't believe the results I was getting with rifle 1 so made the investment to build a second to verify. Rifle 1 is blessed with a hummer of a barrel that has been a joy to shoot and win with. Rifle 2 confirms that with a quality pipe, the savage action can indeed provide a solid lock up with the accuracy potential to go head to head with many LR mega dollar custom actioned rifles.
The present 223 is showing some spectacular results too given the expected performance of the cartridge, bullet and rifle set up. A varmint rifle shouldn't shoot 1/4 min or better.
I have never said that every rebarreled savage will shoot this well. Some barrels don't shoot no matter what you do. Accuracy is determined by the pipe. Everything else we do just extracts the most of the potential.
However, I stand behind my statement that the Savage/Stevens actions can offer a superb platform to build a match accurate rig for little money. Is it suitable for SR BR? NOPE. Bolt lift is too tough for machine gunning.
But would a 14 twist 68gr spitting 6PPC do well in a 1000yd BR match? NOPE. It would likely battle for the bottom of the standings as its short range prowess cannot be applied at those distances. I wonder if the bullet would even make the trip. Another test for another time.
I bet my 223 would be a whole lot easier to drive at that range and would prove MORE ACCURATE.
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Don't your rifles shoot in the 1's and 2's under calm conditions? Can't you?
I would bet that if you are a competitive SR BR shooter your rifle better shoot at WORSE in the 2's or it is getting a new barrel.
There are certainly a significant number of competitive BR rifles that can shoot in the low 1's and 0's if put in a tunnel.
Every shooter/rifle that goes to the line to compete for a win has the ability and equipment to shoot teeny tiny groups. That is mechanical accuracy.
The reason why we compete is because the true challenge is shooting as well as the rifle will UNDER MATCH CONDITIONS. That is rarely as accomodating as during prefered test sessions. That is exactly what I was saying in my above post.
The separation between what the equipment can do and what I can do on any given Sunday. I don't blame my gear for my poor performance. And my poor performance doesn't make my rifle any less accurate.
I have never said that I was a great wind doper. I am not. But I do well enough and shoot rifles accurate enough, that my error is still smaller then the X ring a good percentage of the time.
Then there are the vastly varying goals and tasks of any rifle shooting sport. In SR BR, agg's of 1/2 MOA would put you in the running for dead last at just about any competition any where in the world.
In F class (to my knowledge), no one anywhere at any usual distance has shot 1/2 min through an entire match. No shooter using any legal rifle with any cart/bullet/cal under match conditions. Does that make these rifles inaccurate? The shooters lousy? Of course not.
The tasks are so completely different that the end results are not comparable. Would be like comparing drag racing with formula racing. Both very fast but neither competitive in the other application and a direct comparison of their results pointless.
If you do a bit of snooping on the savage forums and even this one, there are many shooters who are reporting fantastic performance using these actions. In fact, have a look at the F class US nationals last fall. Team savage won one of the prelim events and their shooters placed in the top 5 in the main national competition.
All with 'FACTORY' rifles and barrels (that is what they and others have reported). One even said he didn't bed his action. - go figure.
These actions work really well and offer shooters of many shooting disciplines a wonderfully effective action to build from. All for little investment in cost and tuning. That doesn't make it perfect for EVERY application. But then I wouldn't want a BR match action in a run and gun scenerio either.
The key is the barrel and like Tony Boyer, sometimes you just got to spin on a bunch to find a shooter. My first 223 pipe was so so. The second a shooter!
I have played with almost a dozen Savage and Stevens actions made from at least 5 yrs of production. They have all worked wonderfully. Give one a try. It might surprise you with how well it shoots given a proper pipe and some simple tweaks.
Will it change what dominates SR BR? NOPE. That has been explored by those far more experienced then I.
But neither is the 6PPC ever going to make a dent in any LR shooting sport. Doesn't make it any less accurate for its reason d'etre.
LR BR rifles try very hard to get their rifles to agg in the 3's at short range. Is that accurate? I think agg's at 1000yds of 3" is pretty damn impressive.
What do you think?
Jerry
I would bet that if you are a competitive SR BR shooter your rifle better shoot at WORSE in the 2's or it is getting a new barrel.
There are certainly a significant number of competitive BR rifles that can shoot in the low 1's and 0's if put in a tunnel.
Every shooter/rifle that goes to the line to compete for a win has the ability and equipment to shoot teeny tiny groups. That is mechanical accuracy.
The reason why we compete is because the true challenge is shooting as well as the rifle will UNDER MATCH CONDITIONS. That is rarely as accomodating as during prefered test sessions. That is exactly what I was saying in my above post.
The separation between what the equipment can do and what I can do on any given Sunday. I don't blame my gear for my poor performance. And my poor performance doesn't make my rifle any less accurate.
I have never said that I was a great wind doper. I am not. But I do well enough and shoot rifles accurate enough, that my error is still smaller then the X ring a good percentage of the time.
Then there are the vastly varying goals and tasks of any rifle shooting sport. In SR BR, agg's of 1/2 MOA would put you in the running for dead last at just about any competition any where in the world.
In F class (to my knowledge), no one anywhere at any usual distance has shot 1/2 min through an entire match. No shooter using any legal rifle with any cart/bullet/cal under match conditions. Does that make these rifles inaccurate? The shooters lousy? Of course not.
The tasks are so completely different that the end results are not comparable. Would be like comparing drag racing with formula racing. Both very fast but neither competitive in the other application and a direct comparison of their results pointless.
If you do a bit of snooping on the savage forums and even this one, there are many shooters who are reporting fantastic performance using these actions. In fact, have a look at the F class US nationals last fall. Team savage won one of the prelim events and their shooters placed in the top 5 in the main national competition.
All with 'FACTORY' rifles and barrels (that is what they and others have reported). One even said he didn't bed his action. - go figure.
These actions work really well and offer shooters of many shooting disciplines a wonderfully effective action to build from. All for little investment in cost and tuning. That doesn't make it perfect for EVERY application. But then I wouldn't want a BR match action in a run and gun scenerio either.
The key is the barrel and like Tony Boyer, sometimes you just got to spin on a bunch to find a shooter. My first 223 pipe was so so. The second a shooter!
I have played with almost a dozen Savage and Stevens actions made from at least 5 yrs of production. They have all worked wonderfully. Give one a try. It might surprise you with how well it shoots given a proper pipe and some simple tweaks.
Will it change what dominates SR BR? NOPE. That has been explored by those far more experienced then I.
But neither is the 6PPC ever going to make a dent in any LR shooting sport. Doesn't make it any less accurate for its reason d'etre.
LR BR rifles try very hard to get their rifles to agg in the 3's at short range. Is that accurate? I think agg's at 1000yds of 3" is pretty damn impressive.
What do you think?
Jerry
I think you need to go to a BR match to see what it means to be tossing terms around like agg's in the 2's and 1's and shooting zero's. Even if you don't shoot, you will be surprised to see what it really means. Don't assume you know what goes on in other disciplines.
This has been a great post in some ways and I have been reluctant to comment as I am in the process of learning how to shoot again after a 6 year hiatus. In fact, after seeing how much accuracy had improved in F Class at the Farquy last year I'm really not sure if I ever really could. But that is for future matches to tell. The biggest thing that has happened to me though is what Jerry has done and I want to tell you why. I have spent many hours with Jerry over the years shooting silhouette and targets and hunting and I know the thinking behind what he has done and the effort that has gone into it. Not only is he creative and sincerely interested in shooting, he has integrity and he delivers, and he should get credit for it. What were his scores at the Farquy? If memory serves his aggregate was 2nd at the Farquy last year (as I recall, somebody named Leeper got lucky...
). I think Jerry was first the year before. I have also seen him shoot groups and they are true...period. Now, on to the Savage actions. Jerry's ideas were what brought me back to shooting. Originally I had a Sportco that might do a little better than 1/2 MOA at 100 meters all things being equal. (I thought it would shoot in the 3's at 100. At least that is what I thought I was measuring. But I don't want to anger any benchresters. The best 5 shot group I shot with it was just under a 1/4 inch.) It would shoot possibles all day long at 300 meters in good conditions, but it would usually be beaten by guys with 6mm PPC's or BR's on X count. Sure there were better shooters around, and I could certainly get better myself, who couldn't. The rifle locked up well enough to suggest printing or alignment wouldn't help and things were going in a particular direction and I just couldn't justify spending the 2 or 3 K necessary to give myself a good chance to win by buying a custom action and barrel. Well I have just taken this same rifle to a 300 yard range along with the 6 mm BR I am getting together. The 3 five shot groups I did at 300 with my Sportco were 2 3/16, 2 1/2 and 3 inches. The 3 five shot groups I shot with my Steven's 200 action, barrel of dubious provenance, 6Br were 1, 2 7/8 and 1 1/4 inches. At 200 some of the groups I have shot are scary. I simply can't explain this and I didn't think it would happen to me. In other words the action feels like you are running the bolt over a gravel bed, but it is just accurate enough to give me a fighting chance on X's at 300 and all on a beer budget. It leaves me grateful to Jerry and, for me, it leaves something to explain about the Stevens and Savage actions. If you think I'm just a better shot than I was before, don't believe it. I can give you lots of evidence to the contrary. PS I did have a couple of my Remington actions trued over the years without these kind of results. They needed it too.
). I think Jerry was first the year before. I have also seen him shoot groups and they are true...period. Now, on to the Savage actions. Jerry's ideas were what brought me back to shooting. Originally I had a Sportco that might do a little better than 1/2 MOA at 100 meters all things being equal. (I thought it would shoot in the 3's at 100. At least that is what I thought I was measuring. But I don't want to anger any benchresters. The best 5 shot group I shot with it was just under a 1/4 inch.) It would shoot possibles all day long at 300 meters in good conditions, but it would usually be beaten by guys with 6mm PPC's or BR's on X count. Sure there were better shooters around, and I could certainly get better myself, who couldn't. The rifle locked up well enough to suggest printing or alignment wouldn't help and things were going in a particular direction and I just couldn't justify spending the 2 or 3 K necessary to give myself a good chance to win by buying a custom action and barrel. Well I have just taken this same rifle to a 300 yard range along with the 6 mm BR I am getting together. The 3 five shot groups I did at 300 with my Sportco were 2 3/16, 2 1/2 and 3 inches. The 3 five shot groups I shot with my Steven's 200 action, barrel of dubious provenance, 6Br were 1, 2 7/8 and 1 1/4 inches. At 200 some of the groups I have shot are scary. I simply can't explain this and I didn't think it would happen to me. In other words the action feels like you are running the bolt over a gravel bed, but it is just accurate enough to give me a fighting chance on X's at 300 and all on a beer budget. It leaves me grateful to Jerry and, for me, it leaves something to explain about the Stevens and Savage actions. If you think I'm just a better shot than I was before, don't believe it. I can give you lots of evidence to the contrary. PS I did have a couple of my Remington actions trued over the years without these kind of results. They needed it too.Optics aside, I have not spent over 700 dollars on any of my rifles (I don't charge myself labour). I have said from the start that one does not have to take part in the equipment race. I believe this applies to short range BR as well. You can spend 6000 dollars on rifle and accessories but you don't have to.
At the same time, I have never seen anyone place well in a benchrest match using a Savage action. What's more, I don't think I will. I do think it would be possible to build a competitive rifle using a Savage action but most Savage shooters are not benchresters.
By the way, I think I can beat most Savage 6BR's with a P14 303 British. So there! Regards, Bill
At the same time, I have never seen anyone place well in a benchrest match using a Savage action. What's more, I don't think I will. I do think it would be possible to build a competitive rifle using a Savage action but most Savage shooters are not benchresters.
By the way, I think I can beat most Savage 6BR's with a P14 303 British. So there! Regards, Bill
Fair comment about the optics Bill and that brings up a whole host of other questions too. Have nothing against benchrest shooting. In fact, I believe that experimentation by benchrest shooters has provided the rest of us with most of the progress that has happened. Wouldn't mind trying it sometime, but it is not what I am doing right now, and I certainly don't have a rifle in my stable that I would take to a match feeling at all appropriate. There is also little doubt in my mind that there is a 303 around somewhere that can win a 300 meter match either, especially when it is worked on and shot by a talented, knowledgeable and patient person. That really doesn't help me much though. Truthfully, I am also somewhat suspicious of trying to buy points. So, I haven't spent much on individual rifles either, with the exception of my Anschutz 1700 and 340 Weatherby. On the other hand, after bedding my rifle, testing every load I can think of and shooting it for more years than I want to count I don't see how to do better with that Sportco. I haven't exactly quit on it, but I'm close. The deficiency may well be in me or maybe I am psyching myself out. I know that I miss alot of changes out there and I feel in some ways like I'm taking a knife to a gun fight. On the other hand, I do better with that Stevens action 6BR in practice and I started doing better right away. I really like practicing with it too. So, the change is helpful in a number of ways. I owe Jerry for that and I'm grateful.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
BCFred, thanks for the kind comments. It has been alot of fun for me too. I guess I am buying lunch on Friday?????
Knowing how you shoot, I think you will find your scores really improving this season. Having an extra 1/2" of wiggle room on that X ring will only help raise that X count.
Certainly how I do it.
That Sportco is so consistent it is spooky. However, it likes to distribute the holes evenly all over the 10 and X ring. Sometimes the rifle is the weak link and in this case, I believe it is.
Rebarreling that action is a royal pain but can be done. A better pipe and your groups would consistently shrink. But I think the 6BR will do very well for you.
Leeper, I think you can put the boots to a whole bunch of Nesikas, Stolles, Bernards, Savages/Rem and what have you.
I saw maybe two rifles at the Farky that were not accurate enough to hold the X ring. Unfortunately, most of us weren't as good
It's all about reading the conditions and you are very good at that (or maybe, luckier then most). That is what wins relays and matches.
A rifle can only take you so far. It can't steer the bullet no matter the money spent.
You still got to know how to steer. I remember watching a great shift in conditions where a bunch of shooters got a wide X/10 only to get a wider 8 or 9 in the time it took to load and fire again. Of course, the gust lasted only that long and came off just as quick helping a few shooters push a shot out the other side. That's what keeps me coming back to learn.
If it wasn't for an oops in scheduling, I would be happy to take that P14 on in April.
Instead, I will be hosting a bunch of nutz wanting to see what happens 4 secs from the muzzle.
Fun, fun, fun....
Jerry
Knowing how you shoot, I think you will find your scores really improving this season. Having an extra 1/2" of wiggle room on that X ring will only help raise that X count.
Certainly how I do it.
That Sportco is so consistent it is spooky. However, it likes to distribute the holes evenly all over the 10 and X ring. Sometimes the rifle is the weak link and in this case, I believe it is.
Rebarreling that action is a royal pain but can be done. A better pipe and your groups would consistently shrink. But I think the 6BR will do very well for you.
Leeper, I think you can put the boots to a whole bunch of Nesikas, Stolles, Bernards, Savages/Rem and what have you.
I saw maybe two rifles at the Farky that were not accurate enough to hold the X ring. Unfortunately, most of us weren't as good
It's all about reading the conditions and you are very good at that (or maybe, luckier then most). That is what wins relays and matches.
A rifle can only take you so far. It can't steer the bullet no matter the money spent.
You still got to know how to steer. I remember watching a great shift in conditions where a bunch of shooters got a wide X/10 only to get a wider 8 or 9 in the time it took to load and fire again. Of course, the gust lasted only that long and came off just as quick helping a few shooters push a shot out the other side. That's what keeps me coming back to learn.
If it wasn't for an oops in scheduling, I would be happy to take that P14 on in April.
Instead, I will be hosting a bunch of nutz wanting to see what happens 4 secs from the muzzle.
Fun, fun, fun....
Jerry
Maybe you are referring to bushing the firing pin? That usually is done to correct a poor fit of the firing pin and the firing pin hole... reducing the hole size and making the pin tip smaller... really not as much an accuracy procedure as a benefit allowing hotter loads to be used.
Generally, the hole is bushed and the pin diameter reduced. There is no weight added to the pin.
Occasionally, the striker may be modified so that it is a better fit in the bolt body. If this is done, the bolt body is reamed or honed inside then the shoulder of the firing pin is built up and turned to fit more closely in the bolt. Alternatively, the forward portion of the bolt bore is reamed then that portion of the pin immediately behind the tip is bushed to improve alignment. Weight increase is miniscule. So is the benefit! Regards, Bill.
Occasionally, the striker may be modified so that it is a better fit in the bolt body. If this is done, the bolt body is reamed or honed inside then the shoulder of the firing pin is built up and turned to fit more closely in the bolt. Alternatively, the forward portion of the bolt bore is reamed then that portion of the pin immediately behind the tip is bushed to improve alignment. Weight increase is miniscule. So is the benefit! Regards, Bill.
Hey Rick
Does your Canadian Benchrest record still stand. What was the agg on that record again. Oh is that screamer patch still collecting dust on your wall? Its been a few years since we shot the Cactus Classic ah
Hey Rick
Does your Canadian Benchrest record still stand. What was the agg on that record again. Oh is that screamer patch still collecting dust on your wall? Its been a few years since we shot the Cactus Classic ah
Thanks for digging up this gem of a thread again.....Round 2...DING DING
I don't give a rats azz if he holds records on every continent....sorry...it still doesn't give him the right to be an ignorant prick!!!
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Well I was just stating facts. The problem with CGN is that anyone can say anything. I and others have in western Canada have countless hours at the range and competed at the highest levels of the accuracy game. It is very hard sometimes to sit back and read plan out right BS. intentional or otherwise. The topics that are discussed on this forum are hardly new. Statistically a 3 shot group is not a good sampling of a rifles accuracy. That why we shoot in competition 5 and 10 shot groups in benchrest and strings of 10-15 or more in TR or F class.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
What little math and shooting I know has shown me that if the first 3 bullets don't go into the same hole, the next 50 really don't matter.
If the first 3 rds go into the same hole, unless there are issues with the barrel when it heats up or I screw up shooting, the next 50 will as well.
How else do you get 15rds groups that measure under 1/2" at 200yds?
WE are talking about quality rigs with match barrels assembled true pushing perfect bullets and ammo aren't we? This shot by someone who actually has the abilities to drive them into one hole given the right conditions?
How many winning BR shooters test each new barrel by blasting hundreds of rds to confirm that they have enough statistical data to satisfy a numbers nut?
I bet a grand total of ZERO. They know how to shoot and if they have a rig that should shoot, they will find a load quickly or the 'best accuracy' life of a barrel will be passed.
How many top ranking SR BR shooters change out their pipes from 500 to 800rds? How many stop testing and pitch the pipe after as little as 70rds?
From what they report, a whole lot of them.....
Jerry
PS never assume that if someone doesn't agree with your paradigm they know jack ####. I bet the PPC's knew a thing or two dispite breaking the mold on the SR BR world. Now everyone speaks the gospel according to PPC.
What/Who will break the mold next???????
Certainly not someone or something inside the box
If the first 3 rds go into the same hole, unless there are issues with the barrel when it heats up or I screw up shooting, the next 50 will as well.
How else do you get 15rds groups that measure under 1/2" at 200yds?
WE are talking about quality rigs with match barrels assembled true pushing perfect bullets and ammo aren't we? This shot by someone who actually has the abilities to drive them into one hole given the right conditions?
How many winning BR shooters test each new barrel by blasting hundreds of rds to confirm that they have enough statistical data to satisfy a numbers nut?
I bet a grand total of ZERO. They know how to shoot and if they have a rig that should shoot, they will find a load quickly or the 'best accuracy' life of a barrel will be passed.
How many top ranking SR BR shooters change out their pipes from 500 to 800rds? How many stop testing and pitch the pipe after as little as 70rds?
From what they report, a whole lot of them.....
Jerry
PS never assume that if someone doesn't agree with your paradigm they know jack ####. I bet the PPC's knew a thing or two dispite breaking the mold on the SR BR world. Now everyone speaks the gospel according to PPC.
What/Who will break the mold next???????
Certainly not someone or something inside the box
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