Gotta go. Catch you guys in the morning. Don't want to peak too soon.
Yes, do run along. Don't forget your helmet and your bib now.
What is a 'printed action' 'trued action'?
- Thread starter cath8r
- Start date
Yes, do run along. Don't forget your helmet and your bib now.
I think that's a bit out of line. In fact the last couple of posts have been.
I realize that strong feelings have been evoked, potential paradigm shifts are neve easy, and by the same token, it's hard to face the possibility that what you thought was going to be a paradigm shift is just an anomaly.
Whether Jerry and all of his ideas are ready to compete in any discipline might be open for debate; but I think we all have to agree that for someone that doesn't do his own metalwork, Jerry gets very good accuracy for relatively little money.
Could he do better with a Barnard, a Stolle or a BAT? Probably
Hi westernronin
Nice to meet you, welcome to gunnutz. Glad to see you have made posts.
I agree with a few of the things you have said. I am not a big savage fan either.
I know nothing about you, as you me.
However, I think you are out of line.
Please play nice!
Thankyou
Dave H
Nice to meet you, welcome to gunnutz. Glad to see you have made posts.
I agree with a few of the things you have said. I am not a big savage fan either.
I know nothing about you, as you me.
However, I think you are out of line.
Please play nice!
Thankyou
Dave H
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Considering the last post I quoted of his pretty much screams "I'M A TROLL AND I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE ONE" with his "I don't want to peak too soon" comment, I think he deserves everything he has gotten. In fact I think he should be due for a ban for doing nothing in his 8 or 9 posts but be a #### disturbing troll and doing nothing but detracting from this thread.
I agree that I probably should have thought out a couple of my posts, but I still stand behind them.
Wow.
That was the most damaging thread to our cause I have seen in a while.
As a returning LR rifle shooter, I sure can wait to go shooting with you guys.
For new shooters, if your rifle can hold a minute of angle, you can have a lot of fun on a rifle range and meet some really fine people. You won't get a ride in a chair, but you will get to hold a beer and laugh alot.
Whatever you think of him or his iron, I would wager that Jerry has convinced more people to give this sport a try than anyone else here, and if the rest of you don't start thinking about this then you will very shortly be five old white-haired farts shooting against each other, again, and wondering what happened.
That was the most damaging thread to our cause I have seen in a while.
As a returning LR rifle shooter, I sure can wait to go shooting with you guys.
For new shooters, if your rifle can hold a minute of angle, you can have a lot of fun on a rifle range and meet some really fine people. You won't get a ride in a chair, but you will get to hold a beer and laugh alot.
Whatever you think of him or his iron, I would wager that Jerry has convinced more people to give this sport a try than anyone else here, and if the rest of you don't start thinking about this then you will very shortly be five old white-haired farts shooting against each other, again, and wondering what happened.
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I would wager that Jerry has convinced more people to give this sport a try than anyone else here, and if the rest of you don't start thinking about this then you will very shortly be five old white-haired pricks shooting against each other, again, and wondering what happened.
Well Put.
Any more trolling,insults,name calling and/or other non topical comments will result in more infractions being handed out.
This thread has good info.Healthy,respectfull debate is fine but insulting someone elses body of work because it doesn't conform to your ideas will not be tolerated.We all have different concepts of what accuracy means.For me accuracy isn't and never will be something that any rifle can produce.My concept of accuracy comes from my brain.If I can't hit a figure 12 that is exposed for three seconds from the standing position after running 100m,then on that day I wasn't very accurate.It has very little to do with the rifle and its all relative to what you know.
This thread has good info.Healthy,respectfull debate is fine but insulting someone elses body of work because it doesn't conform to your ideas will not be tolerated.We all have different concepts of what accuracy means.For me accuracy isn't and never will be something that any rifle can produce.My concept of accuracy comes from my brain.If I can't hit a figure 12 that is exposed for three seconds from the standing position after running 100m,then on that day I wasn't very accurate.It has very little to do with the rifle and its all relative to what you know.
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Frosty Farky 300M Kamloops Shoot Last year:
1. Bill Leeper 750-49
2. Jerry Teo 749-51
3. Tom Fripp 749-47
4+. The rest of us
Yup, I would say "Pretty Good" covers it
Is this the only match you have shot? I know Bill and Tom good shooters. I wonder if you look at previous years scores and see how you compare then. It a fun shoot, Haven't shot it in years. I have to say that 300M is just the start. Come out to Vokes 300m-600m its more of a challenge. But if you want to see real shooting go out to Homestead range and shoot 900m with Jay.
Jerry this is what drives us the "elite" experenced shooter nuts. This statement is out right BS. I have shot .0's and .1's in 3 shot load development group don't mean anything but maybe you are on the right track in load development. I challenge you to sit down at a bench with me anytime in calm wind at 100m and shoot a .0 or even a .1 "5" shot group. I will bring the witnesses and anounce the results on this forum. I would like to be the first one to say Im wrong. But Im pretty sure you won't take up the challenge. If you come down to Mission range this weekend for the ISSF 300 match we could set it all up.
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We could do that.
For what it's worth (and I think my opinion is worth quite a lot!), I don't think the "floating bolt head" has much to do with the performance of Savage actions. Why not? Simply because it does not float enough to make up for machining defficiencies in the receiver or on the bolt head. The clearance in the fit to the bolt body is too close and the keyway which mates with a protrusion in the bolt body further limits movement.
The bolt does float in the receiver though, Clearance between these two parts is as great as you will see. The Savage striker system, which does not influence the attitude of the bolt when the rifle is cocked, does allow the bolt to align itself somewhat. This is the main contribution to accuracy of the Savage design.
To potential shooters,
You don't have to necessarily buy accuracy. The equipment race is something you do not have to get sucked into. I plan to demonstrate this over the summer by (a)kicking some RPA, Stolle, and Savage butt with a P14 at 300 meters, (b) thumping on BATs, PGW's,Stolles, Nesikas, etc, with a common 40X at 100 and 200yd, and (c) spanking Winfield at long range with a Remington in 308 and a Model 70. I will cap it all off at this year's Farky by bringing out the defrippulator and and improving on last year's pitiful "X" count. I will do this while not spending over 400 dollars on a scope or 40 dollars on mounts. I'll load ammo using old homemade dies. I look forward to a good year. Am I stirring things up enough? Regards, Bill.
The bolt does float in the receiver though, Clearance between these two parts is as great as you will see. The Savage striker system, which does not influence the attitude of the bolt when the rifle is cocked, does allow the bolt to align itself somewhat. This is the main contribution to accuracy of the Savage design.
To potential shooters,
You don't have to necessarily buy accuracy. The equipment race is something you do not have to get sucked into. I plan to demonstrate this over the summer by (a)kicking some RPA, Stolle, and Savage butt with a P14 at 300 meters, (b) thumping on BATs, PGW's,Stolles, Nesikas, etc, with a common 40X at 100 and 200yd, and (c) spanking Winfield at long range with a Remington in 308 and a Model 70. I will cap it all off at this year's Farky by bringing out the defrippulator and and improving on last year's pitiful "X" count. I will do this while not spending over 400 dollars on a scope or 40 dollars on mounts. I'll load ammo using old homemade dies. I look forward to a good year. Am I stirring things up enough? Regards, Bill.
It really doesn't have to cost a fortune to have an accurate rifle. My gunsmith trues Rem 700's, including recutting threads, lapping locking lugs, truing bolt and action face for $95. Chambering, crowning and installing barrel $135. Bedding $75.
His rifles have won at least 6 National Precision Rifle championships and countless Provincial matches.
Used Rem 700 action $300, Gaillard barrel $350, Sam's gunsmithing $300. CG 2-stage trigger, $300 or $330 with safety, trigger work extra.
The Rem 700 is a good platform as there are more top aftermarket parts and they work!
Regards,
Peter Dobson
Hirsch Precision Inc.
Lapua in Canada
His rifles have won at least 6 National Precision Rifle championships and countless Provincial matches.
Used Rem 700 action $300, Gaillard barrel $350, Sam's gunsmithing $300. CG 2-stage trigger, $300 or $330 with safety, trigger work extra.
The Rem 700 is a good platform as there are more top aftermarket parts and they work!
Regards,
Peter Dobson
Hirsch Precision Inc.
Lapua in Canada
I second that. Remington derivatives are about the single most prevalent action you'll see shooting in 300-600M competitions. I'm a big fan of their excellent rigid XP/XR100 actions and buying a Remington will allow you to incrementally turn a factory gun into a winner as time and funds allow.
Finally, something concrete and sensible, thanks for being constructive! Would the alignment occur without the "floating bolt head"? I honestly don't know the answer, but it seems to me that something would have to move if an adjustment is to occur.
Best wishes on the matches. I hope you do it, right up to the Farquy where I'm hoping to push a bit more than last year and some of the more successful guns are probably thinking this even more strongly.
One thing you might tell a newcomer to F class is what kind of accuracy is needed and give some tips about how to go about getting it, especially if they don't like Savage/Stevens
. It looked to me that one will have to hold the 10 ring across all matches and that X count will be the determing factor. When one considers conditions and so on, it makes sense to me ask for a minimum 2/3 MOA at 300 meters shot in good conditions and 1/2 would be even more sensible. jmho.$400 scope. This sounds low to me. Was it 2nd hand?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Nope, this was my second F class match. The previous year I won the BR class with a 749-61X. Not sure how that compared to the prone guys but I am sure that Mark at the Powder Keg has the scores if you really must know.
I see that you are unlikely to take up my challenge - rebarrel your own Savage and see what happens. If you have never used a recent production action in the ways I have described, don't be quick to dismiss it. You will have no problem recovering most if not all your money if you decide to sell.
I can certainly offer you lots of tips if needed. NO, not likely to happen.
As for this weekend, I am going to be making a VIDEO so unavailable. Would be off to Kamloops otherwise. Be fun seeing the field have to chase a WWI special firing a rimmed cartridge. Classic vs high tech.
Time and family continue to keep me from more events but I am tempted to try a Volkes club 600yd/m shoot this year. Open to the general public, costs, etc?
Can't make either the Aug shoot or Connaught. Pity.
If not, will try hard to be at the Farky again in Sept. Looks like competition is going to be even more fierce with very high X ring scores a must. Let's hope it is windy. come on up and shoot on the same relay.
Going to flog my old barrel until I hit 2500rds. Another long term test I am figuring out. Hopefully, it still holds the X ring or better by then.
I am glad to see that the tone is back to the orig post and figuring out what makes an action tick.
I strongly feel that the floating head on a Savage wobbles enough to overcome ALOT of sins in the receiver. Either that or these are the straightest factory actions on the planet - anyone measure?
That also disconnects the bolt body from the bolt head. There is no interference from the sear dropping to influence the relation/alignment of the bolt head. You can see the bolt bounce around when the trigger is pulled yet there is no impact on consistency/accuracy. Can't do that with a solid bolt.
There is also enough slop in the barrel nut/thread install that barrels can be moved from action to action and still maintain bolt face alignment.
I have swapped a barrel between 3 different actions, used the same brass and loads and had the same results (no loss in case head squareness either and I am running the loads toasty). Others have purchased barrels from me and had the same results on their actions (I usually send my old brass so they get a quick head start). No work has been done on any of these actions.
There simply is no way that all of these actions are dimensionally identical or that straight. Something is allowing them to align the same way. This is the root of the popularity and simplicity of these actions.
And the key reason for our success.
Jerry
PS BCFred, I compete with a $400ish scope too. Bushnell Elite 4200 6X24 AO w/mil dots. Bought them used.
