What is the best combat handgun in use today?

I'm not a huge fan of the glock as a pistol, just don't like the looks or feel. On the other hand it is superbly engineered to do exactly what it needs to do in any condition all the time with the simplest manual of arms. It's easier to strip and clean, cheap to manufacture, more then accurate enought for the job...sorry, no 1911 is as reliable as a glock, hate to say it but to many moving parts and the toggle link to the barrel for lock up is an obsolete design at best. Yes I know it works, but a camming surface works as well or better, has no moving parts or pins and is cheaper to make and fit. The bushing design for the barrel support is well obsolete too. One more fiddly piece to remove and loose. The sliding trigger is a design that feels wonderful and offers poor leverage in case of dirt or distortion, a pivot may let you pull through with mechanical advantage. The mags are easily damaged (though perhaps better then HP mags ) And maybe you've had great luck with internal extractors, but theres a reason no one else uses them. For specialist units they can use the sig or 1911 due to better training or different needs...for a straight up mass issue pistol, pretty hard to beat a glock...thought it hurts to admit it:(
 
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I'm not a Glock guy either, but I agree with the previous posters. For a gun that anyone can be relied on to pull out and shoot someone with, and goes bang every time, the G17 is hard to argue with. The G17 Glock because of the common military caliber, otherwise pick the model.

I watched my non-shooting bud get a lecture on how to operate a Glock at an american rental range once. 'Ya put the mag in here, pull this back and let go, and youre set'. This was only after he told the owner he'd never fired a handgun before. He did fine.
 
The P7M8 and P7M13, fast, safe, accurate and absolutely reliable. Then come the P210, P220, Browning HP, USP, M1911 and Glock.
 
koalorka said:
The P7M8 and P7M13, fast, safe, accurate and absolutely reliable. Then come the P210, P220, Browning HP, USP, M1911 and Glock.
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training is mandatory with the squeeze cockers....when the NJ police used them they had a rash of officers shoot themselves in the legs drawing and reholstering....plus they're expensive and a pain to clean....you get 4 -5 glocks for the cost of one P7 buying in bulk..
 
Cocked&Locked said:
training is mandatory with the squeeze cockers....when the NJ police used them they had a rash of officers shoot themselves in the legs drawing and reholstering....plus they're expensive and a pain to clean....you get 4 -5 glocks for the cost of one P7 buying in bulk..
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Nonsense. Absolute and utter nonsense. The P7 series is so far and above the cut safer than the Glocks that there is no comparison whatsoever. I hate to be contrary and spoil the party, but I have got to tell you that it is impossible to shoot yourself in the leg during drawing and reholstering. Once the grip on the gun is loosened it is uncocked and simply cannot be fired. Period. So even if you have your finger on the trigger. Even if you PULL the trigger during holstering and unholstering the gun will NOT go bang until you squeeze the grip; and it takes a pretty good squeeze to #### it initially but once cocked requires little effort to remain cocked until you release it.

I did a bit of hunting and could not find one single instance or report of anyone using a P7 series accidentally shooting themselves in the leg. Where did you get this information?

Glocks are cheaper because, well... they are cheaper. And as for safety, I have to tell you that I was in a gun shop today and talking with a cop who was in the process of buying a Glock 26 for off duty concealed carry. He was with his better half as a matter of fact. And his statement? Wish he could afford a P7M8... the police price on the Glock 26 is just too attractive. But he will only carry it on his hip with the muzzle aimed at the ground or on his ankle... inside ankle, with the muzzle pointed at the ground. And this, from conversation with a cop!

So, I don't know where this information about the P7 series comes from as far as NJ is concerned, but I can tell you from personal experience (although not very long) that they are so far and away safer than the Glock that there is literally no comparison whatsoever.

Now, as to price? You hit the nail on the head. They are also a much more expensive gun to produce and perhaps a bit past their prime in terms of production costs; so a department with x number of dollars is going to go for 4 Glocks instead of one P7M8 or P7M13. They also require more care and cleaning than a Glock but are just as reliable. And if putting all on the comparison scale, they are more accurate than the Glock due to the fixed barrel and the gas retardation recoil suppression which tends to recoil backwards instead of being 'flippy', hence better time to second and third shots. And capacity? Well, the Glock wins that one hands down as well.

I would be very interested in seeing some hard data on the AD's or ND's as I carry the P7M8 concealed under the impression that it is without parallel in terms of safety. I will NOT carry a Glock with one in the chamber with the muzzle aimed at anything I do not intend to destroy. So please, if you have hard data send it my way... I do not want to be making the BIG mistake here.

BTW, I own several Glocks and love them all. They serve a purpose. They are meant to be a DUTY CARRY gun, carried on the hip in a hip holster with the muzzle aimed safely at the ground. That is one BIG reason they are not a combat gun I guess. Come to think of it, I can't think of anyone I know that wants to carry one in combat. Lots of requests for others. No Glocks that I have heard as of yet.

And by the way, regarding this 'fable' of extensive training being needed for use of the P7 series. That is also a 'fable'. We go back and forth from the P7's to Kimbers and Colts every weekend and have no trouble at all. My 14 year old son does the same. This is (and trust me I would not say so if I was not feeling strongly) the safest concealed carry weapon on the market that is fast to draw and fast to first, second and third shots. And DEAD accurate to boot. No, the training thing is also a 'fable'. I can assure you of that. And just ask anyone using a P7 series. If Glock would only put a squeeze cocker on their pistols or at least a grip safety, they would capture a great chunk of the market that they are missing and only taking due to dropping their drawers on price.
 
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I mean what is the most accurate, reliable, and economical handgun to arm a large body of people with?
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Beretta 92 has been used as a military and police sidearm for about 30 years now. So that would be my pick.
 
torontogunguy said:
Nonsense. Absolute and utter nonsense. The P7 series is so far and above the cut safer than the Glocks that there is no comparison whatsoever. I hate to be contrary and spoil the party, but I have got to tell you that it is impossible to shoot yourself in the leg during drawing and reholstering. Once the grip on the gun is loosened it is uncocked and simply cannot be fired. Period. So even if you have your finger on the trigger. Even if you PULL the trigger during holstering and unholstering the gun will NOT go bang until you squeeze the grip; and it takes a pretty good squeeze to #### it initially but once cocked requires little effort to remain cocked until you release it.

I did a bit of hunting and could not find one single instance or report of anyone using a P7 series accidentally shooting themselves in the leg. Where did you get this information?

Glocks are cheaper because, well... they are cheaper. And as for safety, I have to tell you that I was in a gun shop today and talking with a cop who was in the process of buying a Glock 26 for off duty concealed carry. He was with his better half as a matter of fact. And his statement? Wish he could afford a P7M8... the police price on the Glock 26 is just too attractive. But he will only carry it on his hip with the muzzle aimed at the ground or on his ankle... inside ankle, with the muzzle pointed at the ground. And this, from conversation with a cop!

So, I don't know where this information about the P7 series comes from as far as NJ is concerned, but I can tell you from personal experience (although not very long) that they are so far and away safer than the Glock that there is literally no comparison whatsoever.

Now, as to price? You hit the nail on the head. They are also a much more expensive gun to produce and perhaps a bit past their prime in terms of production costs; so a department with x number of dollars is going to go for 4 Glocks instead of one P7M8 or P7M13. They also require more care and cleaning than a Glock but are just as reliable. And if putting all on the comparison scale, they are more accurate than the Glock due to the fixed barrel and the gas retardation recoil suppression which tends to recoil backwards instead of being 'flippy', hence better time to second and third shots. And capacity? Well, the Glock wins that one hands down as well.

I would be very interested in seeing some hard data on the AD's or ND's as I carry the P7M8 concealed under the impression that it is without parallel in terms of safety. I will NOT carry a Glock with one in the chamber with the muzzle aimed at anything I do not intend to destroy. So please, if you have hard data send it my way... I do not want to be making the BIG mistake here.

BTW, I own several Glocks and love them all. They serve a purpose. They are meant to be a DUTY CARRY gun, carried on the hip in a hip holster with the muzzle aimed safely at the ground. That is one BIG reason they are not a combat gun I guess. Come to think of it, I can't think of anyone I know that wants to carry one in combat. Lots of requests for others. No Glocks that I have heard as of yet.

And by the way, regarding this 'fable' of extensive training being needed for use of the P7 series. That is also a 'fable'. We go back and forth from the P7's to Kimbers and Colts every weekend and have no trouble at all. My 14 year old son does the same. This is (and trust me I would not say so if I was not feeling strongly) the safest concealed carry weapon on the market that is fast to draw and fast to first, second and third shots. And DEAD accurate to boot. No, the training thing is also a 'fable'. I can assure you of that. And just ask anyone using a P7 series. If Glock would only put a squeeze cocker on their pistols or at least a grip safety, they would capture a great chunk of the market that they are missing and only taking due to dropping their drawers on price.
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I gues this is why HK doesn't even have them listed in the LE products web site. :rolleyes:see the link below

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/le_products.html
 
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SiG P226.

It's got a de-cocker widget that may require some training (not absolute idiot proof like glock or XD) - but I do believe that they are carried by some fancy special-ops folk.

I have nothing to back this up.

Were it me, I'd choose a 1911. FWIW = 0
 
Cocked&Locked said:
training is mandatory with the squeeze cockers....when the NJ police used them they had a rash of officers shoot themselves in the legs drawing and reholstering....plus they're expensive and a pain to clean....you get 4 -5 glocks for the cost of one P7 buying in bulk..
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If you were familiar with the P7 manual of arms you would know that's impossible.
 
Ir0nSpIkE said:
I’m surprised that no one has said anything about the HK Mk23. The only offensive hand gun, (according to HK).
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I have one. Its simply too big for a general service sidearm.
It is an absolutely ridiculously accurate pistol, and when you run out of ammo use it as a blunt object.
 
torontogunguy said:
Nonsense. Absolute and utter nonsense. The P7 series is so far and above the cut safer than the Glocks that there is no comparison whatsoever. I hate to be contrary and spoil the party, but I have got to tell you that it is impossible to shoot yourself in the leg during drawing and reholstering...
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Unless, of course, you squeeze with your whole hand, instead of just the right 3 fingers under a combat stress situation...

Squeeze cocking is a dumb idea that has gone the way of the betamax and 8-track tape.

Oh, and the whole "Glocks aren't safe!" thing is as false as the Glock 7, a porcelain gun made in Germany that costs more than you make in a month.
 
My pick is the G19/23. Reliable as the tides, big enough for proper reloads, and to get a good grip on, and small enough to conceal when you decide that's what you want to do.

17/22 is good, too.
 
Most modern handguns are reliable. However the same cannot be said about the people who use them. I grew up watching the old westerns, where the hero could pot the bad guys off their horses at a gallop and shoot the gun out of the hand of the bad guys. That just ain't so. You could have the most accurate reliable handgun in the world, but if you don't put in the range time, it might just as well be a "Jennings or a Lorcin"

I know I may draw outrage from the glock fans, but I don't trust a handgun that doesn't have a safety. Please don't tell me that thingy on the trigger is a safety. I did own a glock at one time, and traded it in on a beretta. Even so I don't like any calibtre that doesn't start with a 4 and end with a 5.
9mm's may have a huge mag capacity, but you will probably need all those rounds to stop some crackhead who is intent on inflicting GBH on your person.
Accuracy on the range against a paper target is one thing, but stopping an assailent who is not going to stand still is quite another.
Again, this is my opinion and that is worth just about the same as anyone else's
 
koalorka said:
If you were familiar with the P7 manual of arms you would know that's impossible.
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I've used a p7...i like them and wish I could afford one. however if you draw under stress you can squeeze and #### without being aware...funny how being in a life threatening situation distracts you...then your on the trigger you "know" is safe and have a ND..... To me they're like any pistol with a decocker...good if you have extensive training, but liable to be not used/mis-used when under stress. The are bloody accurate, I know that...if I had to pick either a g-17 or a p7 for reliablility though, I'd go with the glock...i've shot both, so I'm entitled to my opinion too.

Frankly, cops are the last people who's opinion I'd solicite on gun handling or carry..we've got to many holes in the walls, floor and ceiling of our range from them...
 
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Cocked&Locked said:
I've used a p7...i like them and wish I could afford one. however if you draw under stress you can squeeze and #### without being aware...
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Yeah, I suppose no gun is 100% idiot proof. But it's not like the P7 is going to go off when you squeeze it hard enough. You still need to put your finger on the trigger AND pull the trigger. In other words, you need to make three mistakes simultaneously in order to have a ND. With the Glock, you only get to make two mistakes - put the finger on the trigger and pull it and the Glock will go off. So how exactly is Glock safer?

Squeeze cocking is an excellent idea and it's a shame that more gun makers aren't using it. It gives you consistent, single action trigger (which is vastly superior to the crappy long pull triggers used by Glock and other DAO guns) and there's no need to fumble with the external safety.
 
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