What is the best polymer handgun?

Still alive said:
Absolutely correct! The VP70. Held 18 rds of 9mm. Even had a full auto version. But went the way of the do-do. I think Master G has one. Glock, however, inspired the current trend in polymer guns due to their popularity.
I was wondering if someone would catch my statement! Good on ya j2kool!
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Glocks- did it by having reliable guns and poured millions in marketing and advertising throughout.

@ stiilalive...thanks ..i own hk45 so i had an idea ....lol
 
Still alive said:
Absolutely correct! The VP70. Held 18 rds of 9mm. Even had a full auto version. But went the way of the do-do. I think Master G has one.
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I do love the classic H&Ks (as well as modern ones) but I've yet to purchase a VP70. I might pick one up at some point but from what I've read the trigger is quite stiff.
 
CreamySmooth said:
Also, stop using the slide "release". It's a slide stop or a slide lock. Continued use in the manner will round the corner resulting in poor hold back. Try to teach yourself to slingshot the slide every time. You can't reliably operate a slide in a SHTF situation, because your fingers stop working for detail work. It will also become a bad habit for clearances. You will find yourself trying to run the slide "release" instead of a proper cleavage drill. Just my 2 cents as a shooting hint.
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This is just regurgitated internet BS perpetuated by people who have never been in a SHTF situation, and instructors that don't keep up with current knowledge on stress reactions and the fight-or-flight response. If your fine motor skills go, how are you planning on pressing the trigger? Also, if you have to operate the gun with one hand due to injury or carrying/dragging something/someone, using the slide stop will work better and faster getting the gun back into battery than attempting to slingshot it.

Regards.

Mark
 
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MWL said:
Also, stop using the slide "release". It's a slide stop or a slide lock. Continued use in the manner will round the corner resulting in poor hold back. Try to teach yourself to slingshot the slide every time. You can't reliably operate a slide in a SHTF situation, because your fingers stop working for detail work. It will also become a bad habit for clearances. You will find yourself trying to run the slide "release" instead of a proper cleavage drill. Just my 2 cents as a shooting hint.

This is just regurgitated internet BS perpetuated by people who have never been in a SHTF situation, and instructors that don't keep up with current knowledge on stress reactions and the fight-or-flight response. If your fine motor skills go, how are you planning on pressing the trigger? Also, if you have to operate the gun with one hand due to injury or carrying/dragging something/someone, using the slide stop will work better and faster getting the gun back into battery than attempting to slingshot it.

Regards.

Mark
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You might wanna consider putting the first paragraph in quotes.
 
MWL said:
Also, stop using the slide "release". It's a slide stop or a slide lock. Continued use in the manner will round the corner resulting in poor hold back. Try to teach yourself to slingshot the slide every time. You can't reliably operate a slide in a SHTF situation, because your fingers stop working for detail work. It will also become a bad habit for clearances. You will find yourself trying to run the slide "release" instead of a proper cleavage drill. Just my 2 cents as a shooting hint.

This is just regurgitated internet BS perpetuated by people who have never been in a SHTF situation, and instructors that don't keep up with current knowledge on stress reactions and the fight-or-flight response. If your fine motor skills go, how are you planning on pressing the trigger? Also, if you have to operate the gun with one hand due to injury or carrying/dragging something/someone, using the slide stop will work better and faster getting the gun back into battery than attempting to slingshot it.

Regards.

Mark
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Mark, could you kindly clarify "stop using the slide release". I use it at the range to chamber a round from a magazine, I must have lost something in the context?
 
15567 said:
Mark, could you kindly clarify "stop using the slide release". I use it at the range to chamber a round from a magazine, I must have lost something in the context?
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Mark didn't say that. He got it from Creamy Smooth's quote.
You can use the slide stop to drop the slide all you want. I do the tap/rack normally but will use the slide stop if practicing one hand reloading. Why re-invent the wheel?
 
15567 said:
Mark, could you kindly clarify "stop using the slide release". I use it at the range to chamber a round from a magazine, I must have lost something in the context?
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Mark is no fan of Bob Vogel who calls it a slide release and recommends using it ever the sling shot method because the slide release is faster. If it is faster for a world champion it is what I follow. The chances of the SHTF scenario in my lifetime or his is about the other side of winning the Loto three draws running.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Mark is no fan of Bob Vogel who calls it a slide release and recommends using it ever the sling shot method because the slide release is faster. If it is faster for a world champion it is what I follow. The chances of the SHTF scenario in my lifetime or his is about the other side of winning the Loto three draws running.

Take Care

Bob
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Just to be clear, the first paragraph is a quote from another poster. My response is the second paragraph. For some reason, the reply with quote option did not work.

Regards.

Mark
 
To answer the OPs question: Glock 17/19 gets my vote for best polymer pistols. They point naturally (for me). Simple and efficient.

MWL said:
This is just regurgitated internet BS perpetuated by people who have never been in a SHTF situation, and instructors that don't keep up with current knowledge on stress reactions and the fight-or-flight response. If your fine motor skills go, how are you planning on pressing the trigger? Also, if you have to operate the gun with one hand due to injury or carrying/dragging something/someone, using the slide stop will work better and faster getting the gun back into battery than attempting to slingshot it.

Regards.

Mark
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In a practical way, talking combat, shtf or whatever, the use of the slide release isnt part of the lesson plan anymore. No matter if its pistols or AR (225/226 and C7/C8) CF has taught his soldier, from recruits to spec ops to "sling shot" the slide of a pistol and use the charging handle of a carbine instead of using the slide release button.

The argument of the "loss of fine motor skills" under stress is a very vague argument, that can be argued all day... Personnaly, I never use slide release because this is how most of my training was done. Using the slide release on my carbine has caused stopages where using the charging handle never caused one. Same goes with pistols. Everytime I had a "fail to feed" or "fail to fire", I had used the slide release on either my personnal pistols or issued sidearm, causing the slide to not engage the round properly or create a small enough gap that wouldnt allow the pistol to fire. In the event that you lost the use of one hand, adapt and overcome and use the slide release or any other technique (good or bad) to operate and return fire.

Definitly not just some "regurgitated internet BS perpetuated by people that never been in shtf". Dont know about your experience, but the people that taught me those drills years ago were not some "internet people" and knew what they were talking about and I can say the same about myself having used those drill in situations involving 2 ways "shooting range"

Now, if we let the combat, shtf, stressful situation aside... On a competitive point of view, the slide release requires less manipulation, less movement from the shooter and can shave some time of a timed run. Thats why they make/sell slide release extension, BAD lever and what not.
 
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Actually, it is part of the lesson plan if you look outside of the CF, who are stuck in a time warp, just like many other large organizations. The instructors teach what they were taught, and nothing changes. You said so yourself. How long ago did you learn it, and yet they are still doing the same thing today.

Things have moved on, due to lessons learned. Look around and see what other organizations and instructors are teaching.

I regularly work with current and former CF and CANSOF members, so I know what they teach. Additionally, I have lived and worked in some pretty nasty places, and have had to use a handgun in what you would describe as SHTF on more than one occasion.

Regards.

Mark
 
I dont think there is "right and wrong" on this issue. I've learn the slide release method before we migrated to the "slingshot"/charging handle.

There is defintly more than one way to achieve things, especially when it comes to drills and its always fun to discuss about it with others. Thats how we change things for the better
 
The slide stop works only if the slide locks to the rear. Racking the slide works regardless of slide position. Which one works 100% of the time and which one works only 50% of the time? Using the slide also works on all pistols, the HK P7 pistol for example has no slide stop that you can activate. Same thing with some rifles that don't lock open on last round. The charge handle always charges the rifle, the bolt catch only works if the bolt was caught to begin with..
 
Which one works 100% of the time, until it doesn't?

Operating a handgun or long gun one handed due to an injury or needing the other hand for something else, will require you to switch your method.

That is why practising one method to the exclusion of the other is not optimal.

My original comment was aimed at the statement that you can't use the slide stop because you lose the ability to use fine motor skills in stressful situations, something that has been proven to be untrue, but gets repeated ad nauseum by people who don't know what they don't know.

Are there valid reasons for using the slingshot method? Sure, some are organizational, some are functional, but the inability to use your fingers isn't one of them. Again, how are you going to press the trigger, or clear a level 3 holster if your fingers stop working?

Use and practice, practice, practice both methods. When the time comes, your gun will immediately appear in your hand, and your shots will hit center mass before you even realize it.

Regards.

Mark
 
MWL said:
Just to be clear, the first paragraph is a quote from another poster. My response is the second paragraph. For some reason, the reply with quote option did not work.

Regards.

Mark
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Sorry Mark my error. Your comment regarding large orgs like the military are spot on.

I agree it is worth while to practice both but my concerns rest with the potential for injury that exists when using the sling shot method. Almost everyone who uses this method to recharge their pistol will cover the ejection port with the palm of their hand.
They also cover the ejection port when they unload and show clear.

Where problems occur is when the ejecting round hits their palm and drops back into the gun. If the slide moves forward at the same time the cartridge can hit the ejector, the ejector hits the primer, the gun goes boom and the shooter has a hand full of brass. It has happened to a very good friend of mine and it can happen to anyone.

I have SO'd hundreds of matches over the past 10 years or so and from my observations almost all who use the over hand method to eject the last round out of their gun cover the ejection port with the palm of their hand. Too, when asked, they all claim their hand never covered the port and they go on to illustrate how they only grabbed the back of the slide. Some will actually catch the bullet in their palm while their hand is on the gun and still insist their palm was never over the port.

I pass this on only to suggest to shooters that claim to never use the the slide release lever and only advocate the sling shot method to ask themselves, do I shoot for a living? do I need surgery on my hand where I most certainly will lose feeling in the hand due to nerve damage? or do I look a little less tacticool, in some eyes, and use the slide release on slide lock reloads and pinch the back the of the slide to pull it back to eject the round when asked to unload and show clear?

The Pros I have seen shoot almost to a man catch their ejected round in mid air. I have to admit it really is cool to do so. I have the reactions of a dying spider so their is no hope for me but none of them catch the cartridge as it rolls out of the ejection port and none of them ever cover the ejection port while unloading their guns, but for those of us who are not quite as talented...I am afraid we don't do as well.

If you are like most shooters who are in the shooting sport for the fun of the game or just the shear enjoyment on being able to shoot a handgun accurately don't risk injury needlessly. Whatever you do, don't develop the idea it will never happen to you, it may not but it might and it will about the time you decide it won't.

Take Care

Bob
ps As an SO I am not there to get a face full of brass either so if not for yourself consider the SO.
 
Kidd X said:
The slide stop works only if the slide locks to the rear. Racking the slide works regardless of slide position. Which one works 100% of the time and which one works only 50% of the time? Using the slide also works on all pistols, the HK P7 pistol for example has no slide stop that you can activate. Same thing with some rifles that don't lock open on last round. The charge handle always charges the rifle, the bolt catch only works if the bolt was caught to begin with..
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OK so when the slide stop locks back the slide release lever should work 100% of the time, I think you might agree. Too, if the slide does not lock back, there is no reason to use the slide release lever 100% of the time...you would agree I hope. If the gun does not come with a slide release lever then the opportunity to use what isn't there isn't available 100% of the time...you hopefully will agree. The sling shot method should work 100% of the time. I hope you would agree. If either system fails then the shooter better go to plan B 100% of the time. I think you would agree.

Using the the slide release is faster and for most of us who play the games saving time is a good thing...might even be good in a gun fight for those so inclined, just saying.

Take Care

Bob
 
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