What is the best rifle to start Service Rifle with? /How to shoot service rifle cheap

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carbonrod

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This question often comes up, and I figured it would be best to get a thread going and see what everyone's experience is/has been.

I am not trying to answer for those that are trying to spend X thousands, and run for the cup, but rather those interested in starting on a budget, but still want to learn and shoot. The sort of guy(or girl) that can spend <1000 on match kit, doesn't reload, and does not want to spend a fortune on factory ammo.

Some of the rifles that often come up are:

M14 ($500)
pros:
- pretty good sights.
- low rifle cost
- mag fed
- lots of information, and videos on how to shoot it
- if you throw money/elbow grease at it you can scope it
- some spare parts available, other not so much.

cons:
- ~.85-$1 per round
- high recoil impulse in the rapids/snaps.
- factory front post covers a very large area
- you are shooting off elbows

SKS(200)
pros:
- ammo is currently very cheap. Czech stuff.
- 5rnds, charge with strippers, rack and rock will work.
- Spare parts available, but is often better to buy a new rifle.

cons:
- without better ammo, 500m will be a challenge.
- difficult to scope -- I only know of drill and tap side mounts, though scout mounts are easy.
- you are shooting off elbows


Vz 858 ($750)
pros:
- ammo is currently very cheap. Czech stuff.
- comes with mags
- can shoot of the mag as a rest
- narrow front post
- some spare parts are available, but might not be easy to find. Little prospects for barrel changes.

cons:
- without better ammo, 500m will be a challenge.
-difficult to scope -- I only know of drill and tap side mounts, though scout mounts are easy.

Cq556 ($1000)
pros
- ammo fairly cheap -- ~.50 cents per boom
- easy to build out as time goes on. Worst case scenario, toss the barrel, and bolt, and keep the upper/lower parts cases, and for ~500 your are in really good shape.
- can shoot of the mag as a rest
- good sites
- easy to scope
- spare parts all over the place.
- if you don't do well, you'll have an excuse

cons
- initial price is high.
- There is so many dresses available for this Barbie that it is easy to stay broke
- if you outshoot a $5000 AR, they might feel bad, and go home grumpy ;/

Is there anything that people have tried that I have over looked, or anything that people would recommend for someone to use, or avoid when getting started?
 
well if your serious disregard anything 7.62x39 unless your going to use them for cqb stuff only

for the cheapest bang for your buck i would suggest a m14/m305 with a good scout setup and feed it with stripper clips ask ton 45, btw i don't get where you say "you are shooting off elbows" i have seen rangers do it off the ground with no4s second from that i would go with a cq 556 and third the remington r25 .........only because you have to buy an additional mag but i would seriously go with that with a bushnell 3200
 
I tried to keep out the door rifle costs under 1000 as that seems to be the barrier of many of the new shooters that are asking. Otherwise, yes the Remington R15/R25 come in. They don't have irons, and need a scope though.
 
well , then may i suggest the ole no 4? the rangers do it, and they don't have charger clips ..........with a decent aperture sight i think there is the potential to do ok ........but then hey its just my opinion, there are others with more experiance than me who could comment
 
If you are referring to Service Conditions shooting as in Matches 1-16, on a budget:
For a bolt action rifle, it would be hard to beat a Lee Enfield, with a decent scope mounted. Something like a Falcon Menace 1 1/2-5, or a Millett 1-4. The rifle would NOT have to be as issued, a low cost bubba'd rifle would work, as long as it shot well. A sporting buttstock to give a decent cheek weld would be an idea. It might also be an idea to consider handloads that had less steam than issue ball, particularly for the shorter ranges. A muzzle brake could be mounted on the bubba to help with rapids.
In 1-16, no match requires more than 10 rounds at a go, so reloading with chargers would not be necessary.
For a semi-auto, there are fewer budget choices. I don't know if a scoped Mini could shoot accurately enough to compete back to 500m.
I know of two shooters who have held their own with a M-14.
Probably the least expensive new .223 is the Norinco.
It is really hard to beat a decent AR for competition.
Recently Questar had a sale on CMMG ARs that they were closing out. The last one to sell, at the lowest price ($1100), was a 20" plain jane quick twist flattop. It was likely the best of the bunch for service conditions, but didn't have any of the bells and whistles that are de rigeur these days. It was a great buy.
 
^^^^^he's one of the others with more experience i mentioned lol
Totally agree tiriaq esp with taking a bubba and making it work

what about an m1 garand?

the reload on the rapids would suck
 
I will wait for the new CFSAC course of fire to come out before making decision. The M14 may run the old course - but I got a feeling the new CFSAC will put a hammer on the people historically who stick to the space guns and 308.
 
I do believe that a scope is a great advantage over irons. An M-1 is not scope friendly. In the US, rapids with the M-1 are shot 2+8. There are 5 shot M-1 en blocs, but they can be loaded only one way. Can't see why anyone should get their shorts in a knot if someone wanted to compete with an M-1, and wanted to shoot the rapids 2+8.
.303 handloads with 123gr bullets intended for 7.62x39 give significantly reduced recoil.
 
greentips said:
I will wait for the new CFSAC course of fire to come out before making decision. The M14 may run the old course - but I got a feeling the new CFSAC will put a hammer on the people historically who stick to the space guns and 308.
Click to expand...

ORA is using the CFSAC course of fire this summer. Might be pretty hard to compete with a boltgun.
As far as that goes, the NSCC snaps are all two shot exposures.
 
Yeah, I thought about the scoped bubba, and the as issues no4 as well, but didn't put them on the list because of ammo. I haven't bought 303 in a while(I reload), but the last time I was at wholesale, another guy was buying some cheap remington 303, and it seemed expensive to me. Can factory 303 be had for a price that would make you recommend it to a new shooter?
 
Can factory 303 be had for a price that would make you recommend it to a new shooter?
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if you reload, sure, but 223 would def be cheaper
I will wait for the new CFSAC course of fire to come out before making decision. The M14 may run the old course - but I got a feeling the new CFSAC will put a hammer on the people historically who stick to the space guns and 308.
Click to expand...

true about 308 and space guns. but I don't know about "x39" at that range , but then i haven't tryed it either,I have only tried mine out to 200 with open sights and the group seem to much more than 223 for CQB stuff though no probs , who knows .

for the new matchs a mag charger will def help
 
shortandlong said:
if you reload, sure, but 223 would def be cheaper
Click to expand...
Most of the "I'd like to try Service Rifle" guys that I run into don't load. They are typically plinkers or hunters that have an interest in military rifles, or just out of the forces.

Frankly, I load 303, and I am not sure I'd recommend it to someone on a budget. Most no4s I have seen are hard on brass, and even brass is not easy to come by anymore.
 
Good read here so far for somebody about to try service conditions for the first time. I'm about an hour North of Barrie, so Borden will be my destination.

Reading the ORA website, I see the Military Rifle shoot as a good first time out. Sounds like it's intended to familiarize people with the facilities and learn more about their firearm of choice. I plan to treat it as a stepping stone on my way to trying service conditions.

I have chosen to go with the M14 and pre-ordered a M-305B from our good friends at Marstar. This was an easy choice for me for three reasons;
1. I want something I can shoot outside of a shooting range.
2. I am really interested in the history behind the M14.
3. It will be my first deer / moose gun.

I'm also looking forward to what sounds like a real challenge (see=insurmountable) of competing against the AR's. I'm the guy who mercilessly counts every stroke on the golf course, I like the punishment.

I need to re-read the course of fire sent to me by a GCN member (Hungry maybe?) which sounds like it is outdated now. But from what I recall, it was recommended that a shooter have 4x mags for these competitions? Is this accurate?

While talking mags, I understand the full-length M14 mags will allow some support while prone, so won't be shooting true elbows only, am I right?

Ammo will hurt my wallet I know. Reloading could be in my future, but I need a tutor because frankly it worries me that I'd mess up and ruin something.

I'm torn between how to mount optics, the scout rail approach is interesting but I've never shot using forward mounted optics, have to try it first. Regardless of what I go with, I've come to terms with the fact that a mount & decent optics will cost as much as the rifle.

In the end, here is what I have mentally justified for a first year budget;

$1000.00 for rifle, optics, mount and mags.
$100.00 +/- on gear, nothing fancy just mag pouches maybe a good padded belt.
$200.00 +/- worth of factory ammo to practice / zero (very little I know but it's all I can afford this year)
$100.00 +/- factory ammo for a Military Rifle day shoot, although I really have no idea how many rounds I need for this event?
$400.00 +/- for ammo / food / entry fee for a Service conditions shoot, if I think I am ready. No idea how accurate this number is, maybe you guys could share how much you spend on a typical weekend attending these events?
$100.00 gas for 2-3 trips to Borden ranges.

So, that's a real ballpark budget of about $2000.00 to get into this, and attend a couple events. For me, it's peanuts considering how excited I am to try this. I can't wait to see the range, see the other shooters setups and learn!

Any other newbies out there crunching these same numbers?
Thanks
 
I'll suggest 5.56 is a better starter than .308 and especially 7.62x39. The difference in $$ between buying the rifle and a year's worth of ammo will be used up in a few years. As a starting shooter, you are better off buying competitive equipment now and learning your lessons with properly. To put it another way, would any smart race car driver take a demolition derby car on a road rally?
 
I'll be interested to see how or if civilians bother to adapt the new CFSAC matches once they hit the street. They were not designed around 5 round mags but I am sure people will adapt and overcome.
 
hey i could see someone doing the cqb matches with a 22 semi

i think thats legal ............HUNGRY!!!!!!! Hungry here: Only for honors!

my view is if you want to try it go for it !

ask here if what you got is good enough and give it a shot ..........to me thats part of the fun.

Maple leaf has some good advice but its also good to see if you like it first.
 
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As far as .22 goes, a scaled version of Matches 1-16 has been developed for 100m in. It is challenging.
There is no reason that a practice CQB .22 match could not be developed.
Might make it possible to shoot where centerfire would not be allowed.

With respect to ammunition, handloading can be pretty important. Given the amount that I went through last season in competition and practice, I would not have wanted to be shooting factory match.
 
If it were me I'd wait til I had the dough and buy the CQ.This platform is pretty much perfect for service rifle.They shoot more than well enough out of the box to do well in SR.Ammo is cheaper and the gun is more accurate which will both keep you in the game and help prevent undue frustration.
 
For a cost effective method, a gently used Colt or similar A2 with a small target front post is a really good way to start. It gets a shooter into a platform that is affordable (relatively, considering they are not buying optics to start), accurate (all of the Hbar target models I've run across are very capable), and relatively cheap to shoot with factory .223 (cheaper than all but the czech 7.62x39) and will give really good feedback to the shooter on how to do better.
When they decide to go to optics, they can go with a new upper and optics, so it isn't as hard on the wallet as buying a whole new gun.

I've seen them go for around $1100 on the exchange forum. For that kind of cash, I think they will certainly retain their value.

Hungry here: Agreed. If you will stick with matches 1-12 or DCRA NSCC Matches 1-16, YES that method will work. Once you start shooting the NEW CFSAC Matches 1-4 , everything changes. AR's will rule the roost and M14 ammo will be very costly. Greentips said it right a few posts ago, the NEW CFSAC matches will almost rule out the Jedi Warrior Space guns (AR's, I mean). I have not seen them, but all kinds of speculation is out. Nothing seen, YET! ;)
 
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If it were me I'd wait til I had the dough and buy the CQ.This platform is pretty much perfect for service rifle.They shoot more than well enough out of the box to do well in SR.Ammo is cheaper and the gun is more accurate which will both keep you in the game and help prevent undue frustration.
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thats what i am doing

though i should have held out for an r25
and i know damn well i am just going to buy something better :D

I have aimpoint or a 3200 to strap on
 
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