What is the best rifle to start Service Rifle with? /How to shoot service rifle cheap

[carbonrod]

I have chosen to go with the M14 and pre-ordered a M-305B from our good friends at Marstar. This was an easy choice for me for three reasons;
1. I want something I can shoot outside of a shooting range.
2. I am really interested in the history behind the M14.
3. It will be my first deer / moose gun.

Excellent choice IMO. The service rifle course will let you know how to shoot your rifle well beyond how you will hunt it, and in many of the same situations. If you can, shoot at least the 100-200m positions using whatever ammo you will hunt with.

While talking mags, I understand the full-length M14 mags will allow some support while prone, so won't be shooting true elbows only, am I right?

I have never been able to shoot off the m14 mags. Might be my oragutan arms, but it doesn't work for me. Can anyone get this to work?

In the end, here is what I have mentally justified for a first year budget;

$1000.00 for rifle, optics, mount and mags.
$100.00 +/- on gear, nothing fancy just mag pouches maybe a good padded belt.
$200.00 +/- worth of factory ammo to practice / zero (very little I know but it's all I can afford this year)
$100.00 +/- factory ammo for a Military Rifle day shoot, although I really have no idea how many rounds I need for this event?
$400.00 +/- for ammo / food / entry fee for a Service conditions shoot, if I think I am ready. No idea how accurate this number is, maybe you guys could share how much you spend on a typical weekend attending these events?
$100.00 gas for 2-3 trips to Borden ranges.

I would toss out the optics/mounts in favor of ammo.

There is an awesome video that explains how to shoot the M14/M1 BTW. I think this is the start of it. If it doesn't work, let me know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PFd9YpRzk

 

[Mauser GDog]

I'll suggest 5.56 is a better starter than .308 and especially 7.62x39. The difference in $$ between buying the rifle and a year's worth of ammo will be used up in a few years. As a starting shooter, you are better off buying competitive equipment now and learning your lessons with properly. To put it another way, would any smart race car driver take a demolition derby car on a road rally?

I see your point, but for both practical / financial / M14 love affair reasons it's an easy choice. I have been trying to find alternatives in 5.56 and .223 but nothing really jumps out at me.

By practical I mean non-R, when I say financial, I mean short term / initial purchase price, and the M14 is something I am going to buy anyways.

Worst (or best) case scenario, I get the .308 use it for a year and then justify buying another firearm, still some room in my safe.

I really do see your point though maple_leaf.

 

[mt84]

GDog I like your choice of hardware, I've got one and like to shoot it... Tons45 regularly competes in the ORA Service Rifle Matches at Connaught and does well.

While talking mags, I understand the full-length M14 mags will allow some support while prone, so won't be shooting true elbows only, am I right.

Still havent been able to shoot with the mag on the ground, way to low for me and I get feeding problems....

As for a scope, I went with the Millett DMS-1, a true 1 - 4 Scope, seem to be able to take the punishment I dish out...Can be had from site sponsor Frontier Firearms, it's affordable.

 

[Mauser GDog]

I would toss out the optics/mounts in favor of ammo.

I've never had the chance to shoot at anything beyond 150m - 200m, and I know exactly what 500m will look like (avid golfer), and can't imagine hitting with irons (sights not clubs) at that range.

Now, not having tried it, I have no idea, but it seems daunting.
Are you suggesting not optics initially, with the focus on practicing with irons?

(Squints one eye and tries to look out window at something 500m away)

 

[Mauser GDog]

GDog I like your choice of hardware, I've got one and like to shoot it... Tons45 regularly competes in the ORA Service Rifle Matches at Connaught and does well.



Still havent been able to shoot with the mag on the ground, way to low for me and I get feeding problems....

As for a scope, I went with the Millett DMS-1, a true 1 - 4 Scope, seem to be able to take the punishment I dish out...Can be had from site sponsor Frontier Firearms, it's affordable.

mt84, I followed the progression of "sheilah" closely, she's a beaut.
Sounds like the full-length mag won't act as a rest for me prone either, I am average height (5'-10"). Guess it will come down to practice to find out.

You ever shoot irons at 300m +?

 

[greentips]

I really think 5.56 is the way to go.

You will be much happier once the new CFSAC hits the street in Ontario. The round count could potentially go way up and you would be literally "pounded" to fire 308- and
because M14 is only allowed to have 5 rounds only, you might have to carry up to 10 M14 magainzes! Carrying 10 M14 magazine is a beast, as well as changing mags and putting them in a dump pouch.

There is a very high probability civilian participants, realistically, need to have proper load bearing gear that do not leave trail of crap on the firing points. Carrying 10 M14 magazine is not funny.....

I would say wait and see how the final CFSAC course hits the street - becasue potentially 5.56 system that uses Ar15 mag will be the only game in the future.(and the future is only 2 months away literally)

On the other hand, you can shoot "ORA's" military/Vintage rifle - that is mostly belly shooting with military rifles.

Hungry here: Greentips said it best. I'm with him. None of us have seen any hints nor hard copies of the new matches. Our game is currently in transition. I'm still a .223 / 5.56mm shooter just for the cost alone. I stopped competing (iron sights) with an M14 back in 2005 ORA Service Rifle match 1-12.

 

[shortandlong]

I really think 5.56 is the way to go.

I agree totally but to "give it a try" the cost of an AR buys alot of 303 or 762

because M14 is only allowed to have 5 rounds only, you might have to carry up to 10 M14 magainzes! Carrying 10 M14 magazine is a beast, as well as changing mags and putting them in a dump pouch.

thats why i suggested a "scout" set up and mag chargers.

anyway thats just my opionion ........I still look back on Ton45 kicking @ss with that exact setup .......mind it was the guy behind the rifle as well

sights vs scopes i would look at Longshots scope thread

I have also shot the new matches with an Eotech (first time for that) and i hit what i was shooting at.but then i am not stuck on one tool either,I have not found their wandering zero problem that was referred to by Kieth.....yet once again just my opionion

 

[AbbeyHill]

I've never had the chance to shoot at anything beyond 150m - 200m, and I know exactly what 500m will look like (avid golfer), and can't imagine hitting with irons (sights not clubs) at that range.

(Squints one eye and tries to look out window at something 500m away)

You can do it, GDog! I do TR (target rifle, with irons) out to 1000y and it's great fun.

I'm also looking at trying service rifle with ORA this summer -- the whole reason I starting running/working out seriously was so I could do the rundowns, heh! -- and this 'newbie equipment list' will help me as well. Initially, I've got a pal with two AR-15s who's willing to loan me one, just so I can come out and get my feet wet at the matches.

 

[greentips]

556 is 450 dollar a case, 308 is like 800 dollars a case - the ecomony is not really there.

I agree totally but to "give it a try" the cost of an AR buys alot of 303 or 762

 

[shortandlong]

true, if you already have a 556.

I can see how some would rather spend the money on ammo, if they already have a rifle that would fit the bill is all.

but 556 is the way to go in my view

 

[rnbra-shooter]

I've never had the chance to shoot at anything beyond 150m - 200m, and I know exactly what 500m will look like (avid golfer), and can't imagine hitting with irons (sights not clubs) at that range.

Now, not having tried it, I have no idea, but it seems daunting.
Are you suggesting not optics initially, with the focus on practicing with irons?

(Squints one eye and tries to look out window at something 500m away)

It looks pretty damn small. And with a 4X scope, it looks pretty damn small too.

You can't see the 5-ring (12" diameter at 500, if I recall correctly), just a really small dark smudge in the middle of a 4'x4' target board, and yet, amazingly, you can hit it.

Target Rifle shoots out to 1000y with iron sights, but to be honest the sight picture for TR at 1000 yards (48" round black aiming mark, through a round front sight ring) is quite a bit easier to work with that Service Rifle iron sights at 500y/m (less than a 2' x 2' dark area, with a front post sight).

 

[greentips]

true, if you already have a 556.

I can see how some would rather spend the money on ammo, if they already have a rifle that would fit the bill is all.

but 556 is the way to go in my view

Putting my busines hat on - it is not hard to calculate the benefit of buying a 5.56 right the way. you get the money back in 2500 rounds. you can easily exhaust 2.5k rounds in a year.

The saving you generated in 5.56 is capitalized into the investement of your more expensive rifle, which only depreciates at a rate instead of turning into part of the berm owned by DND.

If the total cash outflow for the life cycle of your system is 3000 dollars after shooting X number of rounds, you will only get back 400 for a M14. however, you will get back 1200 for an AR. You will come out WAY ahead in this scenario if you go with an AR due to the ammunition price of 308.

 

[Mauser GDog]

If the total cash outflow for the life cycle of your system is 3000 dollars after shooting X number of rounds, you will only get back 400 for a M14. however, you will get back 1200 for an AR. You will come out WAY ahead in this scenario if you go with an AR due to the ammunition price of 308.

Non-Restricted is a factor for me right now. No shooting range within 1 hour of my location and even then I think it's 100yard max. Until I have property that is suitable for building my own range, non-restricted is the biggest deciding factor.

I guess I could be driving to Borden on weekends, I think I read the shooting club there is open for shooting every weekend?

 

[tiriaq]

The complete ORA schedule should be posted before too long. Right now, there are quite a number of Service Conditions or CQB matches scheduled, add in practice days and military/historical rifle shoots, and the calendar fills up.

 

[shortandlong]

Putting my busines hat on - it is not hard to calculate the benefit of buying a 5.56 right the way. you get the money back in 2500 rounds. you can easily exhaust 2.5k rounds in a year.

The saving you generated in 5.56 is capitalized into the investement of your more expensive rifle, which only depreciates at a rate instead of turning into part of the berm owned by DND.

If the total cash outflow for the life cycle of your system is 3000 dollars after shooting X number of rounds, you will only get back 400 for a M14. however, you will get back 1200 for an AR. You will come out WAY ahead in this scenario if you go with an AR due to the ammunition price of 308.

ok ok ok you win..........c:

 

[mt84]

All well and good, but you still can got hunting with your AR after a match..... Every system has their + and - don't they....

 

[greentips]

ok ok ok you win..........c:

 

[rooster33]

I also started service rifle shooting with a M14. The very next year I switched to an AR, much more fun and way more competitive. I would sugest going for the 5.56 platform right off the bat.

 

[carbonrod]

I've never had the chance to shoot at anything beyond 150m - 200m, and I know exactly what 500m will look like (avid golfer), and can't imagine hitting with irons (sights not clubs) at that range.

Now, not having tried it, I have no idea, but it seems daunting.
Are you suggesting not optics initially, with the focus on practicing with irons?

(Squints one eye and tries to look out window at something 500m away)

Looking at your budget breakdown, and knowing how finicky scoping an m14 can be, I would put the money into ammo, get dialed on the first 300m, and sacrefice some of the 500m points. I think you'll come out on top in the competition, and that is further then you'll shoot on the hunt anyway.

At whatever point you think you have the $ for a good scope mount/scope, and several range sessions in time to ensure the scope is seated you can go that route. In all honesty, I'd prioritize a dillon over a scope if shooting an m14.

500m is a long way out there, scoped or not, but we are trying to hit a basketball on a car door sized screen for the most part.

 

[shortandlong]

for the new comps 500 is out anyway