What is the best rifle to start Service Rifle with? /How to shoot service rifle cheap

Yes, ORA is planning on using the CFSAC course of fire. No idea what other organizations are planning.
M-14 magazine changes are going to be more of an issue. The LAR 10 rounders might help a civilian competitor using an AR, but there isn't an over 5 round option for the M-14. A sackful of 5 round magazines would be needed.
I hear that the CFSAC course of fire uses much more ammunition than traditional matches 1-12. That is going to be a factor for anyone who has to supply their own, particularly if they don't handload.
 
I've got my 10 Pmags ready to go (5/30's of course), stripper clips and a magazine charger are organized. Still dunno what the crse of fire looks like, but all in time. YES the ORA is moving towards that CFSAC approach since this PRA does have it's mandate to support the LFCA. But that's all I know. Thank goodness for lots of Federal and Win brass in .223. Gotta get case prepping and reloading! :D
 
tiriaq said:
I hear that the CFSAC course of fire uses much more ammunition than traditional matches 1-12. That is going to be a factor for anyone who has to supply their own, particularly if they don't handload.
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The old "Classic" service rifle matches required a minimum of 138 rds, of which 12 were sighters.
As drafted now, the new matches require 266 rds, of which 6 are sighters.

Broken down something like this:
  • 500m - none.
  • 400m - 30 with 2 sighters
  • 300m - 50 with 2 sighters
  • 200m - 60 with 2 sighters
  • 100m - 40
  • 75m - 10
  • 50m - 30
  • 25m - 10
  • 15m - 30

Thats 46% of your rounds/points coming from 100m and less, unlike in the classic matches where it was 10% at 100m.
 
Twice as much ammunition required, but one plus is that many of the series will not require target grade ammunition.
 
Shelldrake said:
The old "Classic" service rifle matches required a minimum of 138 rds, of which 12 were sighters.
As drafted now, the new matches require 266 rds, of which 6 are sighters.

Broken down something like this:
  • 500m - none.
  • 400m - 30 with 2 sighters
  • 300m - 50 with 2 sighters
  • 200m - 60 with 2 sighters
  • 100m - 40
  • 75m - 10
  • 50m - 30
  • 25m - 10
  • 15m - 30

Thats 46% of your rounds/points coming from 100m and less, unlike in the classic matches where it was 10% at 100m.
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At what point in time is this course of fire going to be released to the PRAs?
Is the DCRA adopting or thinking of adopting it for NSCC?
 
Shelldrake said:
Last I heard what that the DCRA was not considering doing the new matches this year, but will be sticking with the classic matches.
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Keith C confirmed this in an email to service rifle reps. I do not see the DCRA switching to the new matches anytime soon if at all.

The new Rules for Advanced Marksmanship 2010 has not yet been released by DAT so if they have been given to the ORA or anyone else they are in draft form only. To be fair it should go out to everyone at the same time but it had to leak eventually.
 
If ORA or any other organization is going to adopt the CFSAC format for matches, the sooner the course of fire is announced the better. ORA's Service Conditions clinic is scheduled for May 1st and 2nd, and the first match May 15th and 16th. That's only seven weeks to the clinic.
 
tiriaq said:
If ORA or any other organization is going to adopt the CFSAC format for matches, the sooner the course of fire is announced the better. ORA's Service Conditions clinic is scheduled for May 1st and 2nd, and the first match May 15th and 16th. That's only seven weeks to the clinic.
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I agree, but remember that we are civvies and Director Army Trg does not have to communicate with us. We civvies have no say (not that I really want to suggest anything) in CFSAC policy and/or procedure. :cool:

When out of their kindness, they send us civvies (in the ORA) a copy of the crse of fire, we can get the targets prepared, score cards designed and printed, yada yada yada. Until then we can only speculate. And to boot, I'm ignorant! :eek: That means I'll just shut up and wait and be patient.

:cheers:
Barney
 
Hungry said:
I agree, but remember that we are civvies and Director Army Trg does not have to communicate with us. We civvies have no say (not that I really want to suggest anything) in CFSAC policy and/or procedure. :cool:

When out of their kindness, they send us civvies (in the ORA) a copy of the crse of fire, we can get the targets prepared, score cards designed and printed, yada yada yada. Until then we can only speculate. And to boot, I'm ignorant! :eek: That means I'll just shut up and wait and be patient.

:cheers:
Barney
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I am sure as soon as DAT publishes the 2010 Rules for Advanced Marksmanship on their website it will be mailed to who ever wants it, its not protected info. Sending it out officially to a civilian organization before the Director DAT signs off on it and publishes it to the military would be unlikely. I am putting out an educated guess that it will not be out before late March at best based other stuff DAT is doing.
 
carbonrod said:
Is there anything that people have tried that I have over looked, or anything that people would recommend for someone to use, or avoid when getting started?
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Well, just to pump another mag into this thread,,

Back to the original question.

  1. If buddy hasn't got a rifle to begin with, and all he wants to do is give this a try to see if he likes it: then:
  • I would only ever recommend an AR of anykind with a good magnified optic on it in at least the 3-4 power range.
  1. If buddy has got a rifle to begin with, and all he wants to do is give this a try to see if he likes it: then I would recommend:

  • Shoot what you got. Even if it is a lever action Winchester Model 94 in 30-30, or an old bolt action of anykind. If you end up liking the experience, then get an AR.
 
Seriously, if you want to shoot the service rifle, get an AR. The whole event is designed around C7 (or A2 now), stop beating the bush and get on it. Buy a 16" AR, and you will be good to go instead spending time on wondering about equipment.

The only good thing about M14 is that - it is cheap and available, and non-restricted - but that doesnot make M14 an efficient rifle.
 
greentips said:
Seriously, if you want to shoot the service rifle, get an AR. The whole event is designed around C7 (or A2 now), stop beating the bush and get on it. Buy a 16" AR, and you will be good to go instead spending time on wondering about equipment.

The only good thing about M14 is that - it is cheap and available, and non-restricted - but that doesnot make M14 an efficient rifle.
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AR-15/M-16 series definately. Inherently more accurate and cheaper to shoot/practice with.
 
Not just that. Much less recoil, which is a factor in rapids and multiple shot snaps; and magazine changes are much faster.
 
greentips said:
Seriously, if you want to shoot the service rifle, get an AR. The whole event is designed around C7 (or A2 now), stop beating the bush and get on it. Buy a 16" AR, and you will be good to go instead spending time on wondering about equipment.

The only good thing about M14 is that - it is cheap and available, and non-restricted - but that doesnot make M14 an efficient rifle.
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"Hater"! :p

Pikachu said:
AR-15/M-16 series definately. Inherently more accurate and cheaper to shoot/practice with.
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tiriaq said:
Not just that. Much less recoil, which is a factor in rapids and multiple shot snaps; and magazine changes are much faster.
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Ok :) , okay.....;)
 
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