What is the least amount of money I can spend on an AR-15 without getting cr@p?
- Thread starter thegrandpoohbah
- Start date
Agree again but if his max budget doesn't allow spending double the money without risking a divorce then we need to help find an alternative that works for him and his budget without buying a Norinco.
GET A NORINCO!
529$@Marstar fully backed with a warranty http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=75213
I know the snobs on here say you can't go less than 2k on an AR or you're buying crap, but that isn't my experience. My first AR was a Norinco CQA, although I paid 750$ for it at the time. I had it for a year and a bit, put around 1200 rounds through it without issue.
Then I upgraded to a Daniel Defense for substantially more cash. I was able to get virtually full value for my Nork in trade, they hold their value very well, The DD is prettier, and marginally more accurate. But the Nork punched paper virtually the same as my new rifle.
If I was shipping to Afghanistan, I would definitely go with high-end gear. But with our restrictive laws limiting us to range use only you can't go wrong with the Nork as your first gun.
529$@Marstar fully backed with a warranty http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=75213
I know the snobs on here say you can't go less than 2k on an AR or you're buying crap, but that isn't my experience. My first AR was a Norinco CQA, although I paid 750$ for it at the time. I had it for a year and a bit, put around 1200 rounds through it without issue.
Then I upgraded to a Daniel Defense for substantially more cash. I was able to get virtually full value for my Nork in trade, they hold their value very well, The DD is prettier, and marginally more accurate. But the Nork punched paper virtually the same as my new rifle.
If I was shipping to Afghanistan, I would definitely go with high-end gear. But with our restrictive laws limiting us to range use only you can't go wrong with the Nork as your first gun.
thegrandpoohbah
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Terrace, BC
Ok, thanks guys. I will take a look at the Norinco. Is the Dominion Arms from CanAm just a rebranded Norinco? Are the Norincos mil spec just in case I ever decide to upgrade the stock and hand guard?
Have you considered getting an AR in 7.62x39? I really have no experience with any, but its on my wish list.
My main reasoning is that I can get non-corrosive 7.62x39 for almost have the price. So even if the gun costs more upfront, the savings should be significant.
My main reasoning is that I can get non-corrosive 7.62x39 for almost have the price. So even if the gun costs more upfront, the savings should be significant.
^^^ wise words
stags and core 15 are great value, but run around 1000
dpms oracle and bushmaster are 800$ IIRC, that's not much more than a Norinco and in the long run could really help you avoid annoying problems but I'm considered a snob by many on this forum when it comes to firearms.
The argument that if I was going to a war zone I would buy something better but since I just use it on a range I'll buy a norinco, nea, dominion arms, etc. I find is really getting annoying. I understand everyone is on a budget and not everyone vacations with the french topless honeys on the cote d'azur with Vladimir.
But why would you not need the quality of a firearm of a two way range on a one way range?
That would be the same as saying since I only drive back and forth to work with my car all I need really is an Indian Tata for 2000$
I personally appreciate things that are well built, I take pride in owning a product which a real company (not a state run corrupt organisation) with real workers (not slaves) took great pride and immense care in manufacturing.
I work in manufacturing and we build some pretty amazing things that some of you used in Afghanistan in situations where you really really need it to work and we build civilian products as well, our quality for all our products are the same whether or not they are destined for defense. I take a lot of pride in that.
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Bullseye in London Ont has a Black Forge AR for $829 - US made gun, looks decent, good price. Other than that, just for shizzles and giggles, do a search for NEA threads, then do a search for Norinco threads - pretty shocking. I've had a couple of Norc AR's, and they aren't at all bad. The only way I'd run an NEA is if I replaced the bolt, carrier, and parts kit with different ones, maybe the muzzle device too.
The NEA bolt problem was limited to a single run of rifles and they have stopped dealing with the supplier they were getting them from. They replaced every one that has had problems free of charge.
You seem to omit the fact that in every one of the NEA problem threads every one of the rifles was repaired free of charge.
I'm not saying NEA is the best brand out there, far from it, but the constant bashing of a company for a few issues they had in the past that they have corrected is hardly fair. They have not only repaired free of charge all affected rifles but they also changed vendors in order to deliver a better product from that point forward.
My experience with NEA so far has been positive and even the guys who have had issues should have come out of it satisfied that at least the company stood behind their product and made things right.
Good luck getting any service from Norinco if something fails once you have a few hundred rounds through it. Also try buying US milspec parts for your precious Norinco and see just how well things fit, some rifles will accept milspec parts and others will not. Norinco has almost zero QC and as long as it functions coming off the end of the child slave labor line they ship them.
I also know two gunsmiths that won't touch a Norinco rifle no matter how much you pay them. That tells me something about what they think of the quality of the rifle.
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As far a non-AR options go, unfortunately the price only really climbs.
- Kel Tec SU-16 (NR) $700+
- Norinco T97 (NR) $750+
- CSA VZ 58 (with mag well adapter) (R) $850 +
- CSA VZ 58 (with mag well adapter) (NR) $1000 +
- ACR (R) $1800 +
- ACR (NR) $2200 +
- XCR (NR) $2000 +
- Tavor (NR) $2400 +
There are probably a few that I'm missing, and these prices are probably off a bit (not too current on most of their market values) but a Norc is the cheapest you can spend to get an AR-pattern rifle. That being said, my experience with my two AR's is that buying the rifle initially is the least of your concerns. Building, customizing and feeding will make the biggest whole in your wallet.
Also, to chime in, I own a NEA and haven't had any issues with it so far, neither did it's previous owner.
where can i get a bushmaster for $800 ?^^^ wise words
stags and core 15 are great value, but run around 1000
dpms oracle and bushmaster are 800$ IIRC, that's not much more than a Norinco and in the long run could really help you avoid annoying problems but I'm considered a snob by many on this forum when it comes to firearms.
The argument that if I was going to a war zone I would buy something better but since I just use it on a range I'll buy a norinco, nea, dominion arms, etc. I find is really getting annoying. I understand everyone is on a budget and not everyone vacations with the french topless honeys on the cote d'azur with Vladimir.
But why would you not need the quality of a firearm of a two way range on a one way range?
That would be the same as saying since I only drive back and forth to work with my car all I need really is an Indian Tata for 2000$
I personally appreciate things that are well built, I take pride in owning a product which a real company (not a state run corrupt organisation) with real workers (not slaves) took great pride and immense care in manufacturing.
I work in manufacturing and we build some pretty amazing things that some of you used in Afghanistan in situations where you really really need it to work and we build civilian products as well, our quality for all our products are the same whether or not they are destined for defense. I take a lot of pride in that.
$900 - Smith and Wesson M&P15
http://ctcsupplies.ca/collections/firearms/products/smith-wesson-m-p15-sport-ar15-223-5-56
A few hundred bucks more than a Norinco - but you'll get a properly coated, in-spec BCG, great trigger, and things that are IN-SPEC, not just "close" to IN-SPEC for all those aftermarket accessories you'll buy.
http://ctcsupplies.ca/collections/firearms/products/smith-wesson-m-p15-sport-ar15-223-5-56
A few hundred bucks more than a Norinco - but you'll get a properly coated, in-spec BCG, great trigger, and things that are IN-SPEC, not just "close" to IN-SPEC for all those aftermarket accessories you'll buy.
Undergiver
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sturgeon County, AB
you could build your own AR. Maybe SFRC will sell there NEA lowers again for $64 and then look for deals on the EE.
Norc is ugly (Dominion Arms is a house brand of Norc), but they do work well.
You have to ask yourself what you want to do with the gun.
If you just want to plink then there's nothing wrong with it. Mine's fine. It's not terribly accurate with store bought ammo (2MOA maybe? gets worse the hotter it gets), so I'm going to one day buy something in an heavy barrel configuration for reaching out.
If you're not concerned with looks, there's nothing wrong with it.
If you're just trying out the platform and are not certain whether you are really going to get into it, there's nothing wrong with it.
If you're going to go farkle-mad on the thing, buy something else.
If I was to buy another Norc the only thing I'd do is put in a decent <$150 trigger.
Also never had an issue with NEA and would buy again. I just don't care for their heavy rail so much.
Finally someone who quotes fairly accurate prices for an ACR
. An ACR can be bought and converted to non restricted for $2400-$2500. I'm so sick of the guys saying they won't buy one because it will cost $3500 by the time you convert it to non restricted. You can count on at least $500 over the cost of the restricted rifle depending which route you take then you can sell the 16 inch factory barrel for $100-$200 or build an AR with it. You need to open up the gas port on it slightly to use it in an AR though. The AR-180B is also an excellent non restricted rifle which can be found for $1400-$2000 for a used one. Maybe a little expensive considering I bought mine brand new for $1400 but considering how good they are and what they offer I think anything under $1800 for one that hasn't been ruined with quadrails and a telescoping stock trying to make it into a tacticool non restricted AR-15 is a good price. I actually devalue them if they have been altered. I love mine and it's quickly becoming the rifle I grab when I'm heading out for an afternoon of plinking at my buddy's farm. It's lightweight, has a good factory trigger, 100% reliable, and accurate enough to hit steel plates at 300 yards using the iron sights.
Another great option is the HK SL8-4, this rifle is not light and isn't the greatest for shooting freehand due to the Lothar Walther heavy barrel it carries but it is the most accurate semi auto I've owned. With a $400 Hera Arms lower and an ACR folding stock it's almost perfect. The only reason I sold my last one is that my ACR was almost as accurate and I could build caliber conversion kits for the ACR. A used SL8 can be bought for under $2000 if you are patient and watch the EE then do a little haggling. Magwell adapters are also available if you want to use your AR mags but the HK mag is actually a better magazine.
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calvados.boulard
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria BC
Dominion Arms has been solid for me. Swapped out the trigger like I would on pretty much any AR, and she's good to go. I have swapped out pretty much every part on the lower without compatibility issues. Has been 100% reliable, and a blast to shoot. No roughness on the outside that causes me any grief. A bit of roughness on the inside, but nothing that has caused any issues or compatibility problems.
