What is this? (.303 rifle)

[PIAT]

Deleted

 

[smellie]

@ Mike Web (sorry about him, but he won't go away)

Went out to the range a few years ago with my (deceased) friend Gavin. We took along a P-'14, couple of P-17s we were testing..... and a Remington Model 30 Express, a Winchester 54 and a pre-'64 Model 70.

Remove the bolts, lay them alongside each other and the close relationship utterly slaps you in the face. There is no doubt possible.

P-'13/'14/'17 is a re-engineered 95 Mauser.

Remington 30S is a commercialised P-'17.

Remington 30 Express is a re-engineered Model 30S.

Winchester 54 is a re-engineered P-'17.

Winchester Model 70 is a re-engineered 54.

Previous to the production of the P-'14 in the USA, the only American bolt rifle in production was the original Buffalo Newton: a slightly-modded 98 Mauser bolt with a Mark III Ross bolt-head. Previous American bolt rifles included the Remington-Keene and the Winchester-Hotchkiss and the original Remington-Lee in 2 basic models. Both were gone before the Great War.

The 1903 Springfield was a Government project: a basic Mauser with a lot of Krag in its ancestry and a safety lug which was far too high. It was never produced for general sale.

This leaves the P-'14 as the DIRECT ancestor of all modern American sporting bolt rifles.

 

[MiG25]

The idea that Remington and especially Winchester were heading for bankruptcy in 1917 is ridiculous. The model 1917 filled the gap for 1903 Springfield production shortfalls but neither Remington or Winchester was in financial trouble at the time. Winchester was THE premium American gun maker and Winchester sporting arms were rolling off the line to eager buyers. I don't think the Pattern 14 was much influence on the design of the Winchester model 70 any more than the 98 Mauser was. Remingtons model 30 was a sportered model 1917 for sure as Remington had a lot of jigs and fixtures already made to produce the Pattern14/ model 1917 actions. It just made good business sense.

Hopkin and Allen did go bankrupt. And Remington was having financial difficulties due to wartime inflation and problems with French and Russian contracts. The contracts weren't fully paid in advance, costs go up in the meantime and you have trouble getting paid. This is a recipe for financial trouble.

 

[Lee Enfield]

Hopkin and Allen did go bankrupt. And Remington was having financial difficulties due to wartime inflation and problems with French and Russian contracts. The contracts weren't fully paid in advance, costs go up in the meantime and you have trouble getting paid. This is a recipe for financial trouble.

And Winchester went under due to their wwi us government production shortly after the end of the war.

Smith & Wesson were partially expropriated by the us government in 1917-19 because they weren't producing guns fast enough

 

[stevebc]

What's the bore like? The last picture shows a "star/asterisk" between the NP and 303, which is afaik an armourers mark indicating rust in the bore. I had an ERA P14 with this mark, and the bore was not pretty.