What is your last ditch rifle....

ive heard of contractors in the middle east using swiss arms rifles, and the very tight machining and fit has led to a great deal of reliability issues. just what ive heard though.

My last ditch rifle is my cz 858 with its folding stock, 2 accessories are a vtac sling and extra mags.. no optics, if you cant shoot without one maybe you shouldnt be shooting at all
 
Greenhorse six said:
Most of this dosen't make alot of difference one way or the other,


Milled receiver Vs. Stamped,- both work for me.
over 1 pound lighter,- more muzzle climb during rapid fire.
short stroke gas system-it is a good system, but so is the AK
striker fired Vs. Hammer- both work for me
properly placed safety, -the Vz safety is easier to use
last round hold open- Meh, you still have to work the bolt handle after a mag change.

the Vz is more complected [ man ,what is up with all those springs?], then a Ak, strip the Ak I've got 3 parts, body cover ,bolt carrier and bolt.


another plus I like about the Vz is you can use striper clip to charge the mag,like the old C1s, thats nice.

And You forgot the "BIG" selling point, non-prohibited, and can be had non-restricted.

It does have some strong points for it ,but I wouldn't say it's a "far superior" rifle.
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The weight of the rifle has little bearing on ones ability to shoot it. A good muzzle break and some skill will mitigate the weight issue. The real advantage comes in carrying the rifle for extended periods of time.

The milled receiver is stronger than stamped steel, can't argue the merits there.

Striker fired systems operate in a linear fashion reducing unwanted movements while firing, as well as reducing the need for hammer clearance in the top cover which reduces the profile.

There's no doubt you still have to run the charge handle after reloading, but you're notified that you are indeed out of ammo without the click associated with AK's.

As for the mags. The VZ mags are robust and reliable. They aren't the bomb proof steel construction of the AK mags, but they also don't weight a ton like the AK mags. Until the Pmag, the AR crowd had been running the aluminum mags without issue. The AR mags of years gone by were far weaker than the VZ mags.

survivalofthefittest said:
ive heard of contractors in the middle east using swiss arms rifles, and the very tight machining and fit has led to a great deal of reliability issues. just what ive heard though.

My last ditch rifle is my cz 858 with its folding stock, 2 accessories are a vtac sling and extra mags.. no optics, if you cant shoot without one maybe you shouldnt be shooting at all
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I agree that one should be able to run their irons before relying on optics. However, you cannot dispute the advantages gained by running an optic, especially a no mag CCO like an aimpoint or Eotech.

TDC
 
TDC said:
The milled receiver is stronger than stamped steel, can't argue the merits there.

Striker fired systems operate in a linear fashion reducing unwanted movements while firing, as well as reducing the need for hammer clearance in the top cover which reduces the profile.

As for the mags. The VZ mags are robust and reliable. They aren't the bomb proof steel construction of the AK mags, but they also don't weight a ton like the AK mags. Until the Pmag, the AR crowd had been running the aluminum mags without issue. The AR mags of years gone by were far weaker than the VZ mags.

TDC
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the milled receiver is stornger then it needs to be, over 80 million stamped AKs and counting,and still going strong ,the numbers speak for themself.

There is a lot of movement going on under the body cover of a AK,and the Vz and I'am thinking the differance between hammer fall and striker striking ain't going to add up much,so thats kind of a moot point.and it doesn't seem to do reduce the profile. they both have about the same profile,.


can't speak for VZ mags,but AR aluminum mags have always been a weak point, thats why we now have PMAGs.:D
 
While I agree you should learn how to use Iron sights imo they are only back ups if my optic goes down, optics (like the Aimpoint and EO Tech) are indispensable for shooting on the move and from alternate positions. Put the dot on the target and squeeze (vs having to align the front and rear sight while moving or under stress)

Shooting at night/low light with iron sights is also not that great.
 
i agree with you guys, a trained individual with optics v.s a trained individual with irons is going to prevail, they're so much quicker. im just saying learn irons first, and dont have a set up that prevents you from easily switching to irons as quick as possible. i like my little beast to be a mechanical creature, not an electronic one too many things can go wrong.
 
Greenhorse six said:
the milled receiver is stornger then it needs to be, over 80 million stamped AKs and counting,and still going strong ,the numbers speak for themself.

There is a lot of movement going on under the body cover of a AK,and the Vz and I'am thinking the differance between hammer fall and striker striking ain't going to add up much,so thats kind of a moot point.and it doesn't seem to do reduce the profile. they both have about the same profile,.


can't speak for VZ mags,but AR aluminum mags have always been a weak point, thats why we now have PMAGs.:D
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I agree on the Pmags for sure! The stresses on a striker are less than that on a hammer. The Ak has the VZ in numbers only because Russia whored out its goods to any and all nations they could influence or control, not to mention stamped steel production is cheaper and faster than milled. Either way, I wouldn't be upset with the AK or VZ, but the VZ has more going for it.;)

TDC
 
Grunt21 said:
While I agree you should learn how to use Iron sights imo they are only back ups if my optic goes down, optics (like the Aimpoint and EO Tech) are indispensable for shooting on the move and from alternate positions. Put the dot on the target and squeeze (vs having to align the front and rear sight while moving or under stress)

Shooting at night/low light with iron sights is also not that great.
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survivalofthefittest said:
i agree with you guys, a trained individual with optics v.s a trained individual with irons is going to prevail, they're so much quicker. im just saying learn irons first, and dont have a set up that prevents you from easily switching to irons as quick as possible. i like my little beast to be a mechanical creature, not an electronic one too many things can go wrong.
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Agreed, and agreed.

TDC
 
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