what velocity loss expected

[nanuk]

I am thinking about getting some surplus x39 ammo, pulling the bullets and powder and loading them into 30-30 for plinking and pelts.

I would use only lead core style.

I have read where reloaders pull the bullets, powder, and pour it into 303Brit brass and seat the bullet for a nice cheap plinker.

I would think in a 30-30, a 123-125gr bullet and powder from a surplus x39 would be near 2000fps.


has any tried this and gotten velocity figures?
or can someone calculate the loss due to larger chamber?


I can find little online.
Thanks.

 

[bcsteve]

I am thinking about getting some surplus x39 ammo, pulling the bullets and powder and loading them into 30-30 for plinking and pelts.

I would use only lead core style.

I have read where reloaders pull the bullets, powder, and pour it into 303Brit brass and seat the bullet for a nice cheap plinker.

I would think in a 30-30, a 123-125gr bullet and powder from a surplus x39 would be near 2000fps.


has any tried this and gotten velocity figures?
or can someone calculate the loss due to larger chamber?


I can find little online.
Thanks.

.30-30 and 7.62x39 have different diameter bullets. .308 for the .30-30 and .311 for the 7.62x39. Not to mention that unless you were planning on loading one at a time, pointy bullets in a lever action are not recommended (unless you had a single shot or bolt .30-30)

 

[B]

I see over 500fps loss with massive velocity spreads using x39 components from a single round to load .303. As was pointed out there are other problems with what you are proposing...

 

[bearhunter]

The .003in difference in diameter won't make much if any difference IMHO. Especially with light bullets and relatively low pressures.

I have done exactly what the OP is asking about with the venerable 30-30 with hundreds of rounds. Never bothered with what the cores were either. The other thing is that the case capacities are close enough that the 7.62x39 powder charge is close enough not to worry about excess pressures. Velocities will be very similar to that of the original 7.62x39 from my experience. The bullet drop at 100 yards is almost identical out of the 30-30 with the surplus components. To me this indicates similar velocities.

Your biggest issue will be which rifle you are going to be shooting it through. If you're going to be using a lever action that is fed from a tubular magazine you are stuck with using it as a single shot. You might be able to load one in the chamber and then ONE in the tube for a quick second shot. I have seen this done but I don't recommend it without a lot of practice and care.

I use a 340 Savage, because I am not a fan of lever action rifles. Nothing against them, just not for me. I do however have several friends that won't use anything else and the practice of using surplus components for varmints has been going on for a few decades. The only thing they do is to weigh the powder from the pulled cartridges and divide the result by the amount of cartridges it came from. Then they weigh out the individual charges with the median results for consistent performance.

My 340 likes the charge delivered by the powder charge with the surplus bullets and shoots them very well.

 

[Bowyer]

My son does just what you're proposing.

He loads pulled Chinese 7.62x39 powder and bullets and single loads them for plinking with his Marlin 336. He was getting pretty good accuracy the last time we were at the range together. I can't remember what charge weight he ended up with, but he started with 25gr.

I do recall some fiddling around trying to get the right COL when he first started reloading those pointy bullets, and he used CCI 250 (magnum) primers to ensure good ignition.

 

[bearhunter]

I see over 500fps loss with massive velocity spreads using x39 components from a single round to load .303. As was pointed out there are other problems with what you are proposing...

This isn't what happens though. Many people use these surplus components just as they pull them for light plinking loads in the 303Brit. Accuracy is acceptable out past 50 yards. The small diameter bullets expand enough to fill the groove adequately with little if any blowby.

 

[kodiakjack]

Nope nope nope.

Steve says it all. Bad idea.

Besides, why spend $0.30 a round on surplus, plus your time screwing around pulling them apart, when you could just buy some cheap bullets and have at 'er? Like these 110gr .30 carbine bullets for $0.16 a round: http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=239&CategoryID=40 Can't load them too hot I understand, but if you're just looking for cheap plinking, you'll likely be light loading them anyway... plus they're round nosed, so your tube mag won't go suddenly inside out.



Edit: slow on the draw.

Looks like some of you folks do this with success, eh? Well, I guess if you've still got all your fingers and eyes... ok then. Not something I'd do though. I doubt there are any reloading manuals that recommend using .311 in a .308. Been wrong before though.

 

[Ganderite]

Should work just fine. Similar velocity in a 30-30

If you want to cycle them through a tubular magazine, load the bullets upside down. Make good wadcutters.

 

[kodiakjack]

Should work just fine. Similar velocity in a 30-30

If you want to cycle them through a tubular magazine, load the bullets upside down. Make good wadcutters.

Is that wise though? If you plan to reload the brass, won't the increased pressure in the "wedge" around the backwards bullet damage the neck? Or if velocities are low enough, does it not affect it?


Sure affects these:

[youtube]AZAyhv0xqUI[/youtube]

 

[B]

This isn't what happens though. Many people use these surplus components just as they pull them for light plinking loads in the 303Brit. Accuracy is acceptable out past 50 yards. The small diameter bullets expand enough to fill the groove adequately with little if any blowby.

Why would there be blowby? X39 bullets are of appropriate diameter for .303 rifles that aren't shot out. I don't bother with a simple swap after seeing the velocity spread and rather poor accuracy, at least by my standards. I up the charge by about 30% and get excellent accuracy and fairly tight spreads. The smaller capacity of the .30-30 should mitigate the issues I find in the .303. I wouldn't worry about .003" over either.

 

[bearhunter]

You need to read what I wrote again. I wasn't writing about your original post. Your original post is for the 308 diameter 30-30 bullet. I commented on the 303Brit which has a nominal bore diameter of .312. This often varies considerably right up to as much as .315. My experience is that the .310 diameter bullets easily obdurate enough to fill the grooves, so no blow by.

Ganderite suggests seating the bullets upside down. This works very well and I had forgotten about that. I do remember it can be difficult to get good neck tension with the ogive reversed. I like to have more bullet protruding into the throat, but that's just me. I will have to try that and see how it works. I haven't shot the 340 since last spring and that was with proper 308 FP bullets.

The bullets I have pulled and used had exposed bases. This helps the bullet to obdurate as the core is pushed forward inside the jacket.

I just looked at the video above and you can see how little area there is for the neck to hold onto the bullet with the 147 grain and there is even less with the 123 grain.

 

[kodiakjack]

You need to read what I wrote again. I wasn't writing about your original post. Your original post is for the 308 diameter 30-30 bullet. I commented on the 303Brit which has a nominal bore diameter of .312. This often varies considerably right up to as much as .315. My experience is that the .310 diameter bullets easily obdurate enough to fill the grooves, so no blow by.

Ganderite suggests seating the bullets upside down. This works very well and I had forgotten about that. I do remember it can be difficult to get good neck tension with the ogive reversed. I like to have more bullet protruding into the throat, but that's just me. I will have to try that and see how it works. I haven't shot the 340 since last spring and that was with proper 308 FP bullets.

The bullets I have pulled and used had exposed bases. This helps the bullet to obdurate as the core is pushed forward inside the jacket.

I just looked at the video above and you can see how little area there is for the neck to hold onto the bullet with the 147 grain and there is even less with the 123 grain.

Have you ever get had the brass split like in the video above?

 

[Suputin]

Nope nope nope.

Steve says it all. Bad idea.

Looks like some of you folks do this with success, eh? Well, I guess if you've still got all your fingers and eyes... ok then. Not something I'd do though. I doubt there are any reloading manuals that recommend using .311 in a .308. Been wrong before though.

And you are wrong here. You actually think that .003" diameter is going to make a difference? It won't, not even a bit. This is entirely safe.

 

[kodiakjack]

And you are wrong here. You actually think that .003" diameter is going to make a difference? It won't, not even a bit. This is entirely safe.

Wrong where? The part where I already edited my post to admit that I was wrong? Or the part where you've found a reloading manual that recommends using .311 in .308? Cuz if it's the latter, your link didn't work... ;-)

 

[Andy]

For what it's worth, I've done exactly this. When the 123 gr FMJ bullet and powder were transferred from the 7.62X39 to the 30-30, the MV dropped by about 250 fps to about 2100 fps. I first checked for adequate neck clearance for the 0.002" larger bullet and I had plenty.

I didn't load the bullets backwards, but I went "full hillbilly" and made a simple jig (7/32" hole drilled into a piece of 1/4" steel and tapered for a decent fit with the bullet tip taper) and using my belt sander, ground down the tip of the bullet to a flat slightly larger than the primer, i.e. about 7/32" or 0.218". This is not benchrest precision in handloading (it's a 30-30 Lever Gun!), but they shot as well as the 150's and 170's I usually use.

 

[kodiakjack]

For what it's worth, I've done exactly this. When the 123 gr FMJ bullet and powder were transferred from the 7.62X39 to the 30-30, the MV dropped by about 250 fps to about 2100 fps. I first checked for adequate neck clearance for the 0.002" larger bullet and I had plenty.

I didn't load the bullets backwards, but I went "full hillbilly" and made a simple jig (7/32" hole drilled into a piece of 1/4" steel and tapered for a decent fit with the bullet tip taper) and using my belt sander, ground down the tip of the bullet to a flat slightly larger than the primer, i.e. about 7/32" or 0.218". This is not benchrest precision in handloading (it's a 30-30 Lever Gun!), but they shot as well as the 150's and 170's I usually use.

I am definitely pro-hillbilly and applaud your efforts... but is that really worth it? I mean you could buy some cheap projectiles for half the price of surplus, and you wouldn't need to screw around with pulling bullets, grinding tips, or wasting the leftover x39 primers. Like, I get the need to tinker, and sometimes the hard way is the fun and more rewarding way, but is there something else I'm missing? Some other benefit to doing this?

 

[Ganderite]

Wrong where? The part where I already edited my post to admit that I was wrong? Or the part where you've found a reloading manual that recommends using .311 in .308? Cuz if it's the latter, your link didn't work... ;-)

Ruger make a Mini-30. Chambered to shoot 7.62 x 39. The barrel is 308, not 310. 3 thou is not an issue, so long as the chamber neck is wide enough to accommodate the fatter bullet.

 

[Ganderite]

I am definitely pro-hillbilly and applaud your efforts... but is that really worth it? I mean you could buy some cheap projectiles for half the price of surplus, and you wouldn't need to screw around with pulling bullets, grinding tips, or wasting the leftover x39 primers. Like, I get the need to tinker, and sometimes the hard way is the fun and more rewarding way, but is there something else I'm missing? Some other benefit to doing this?

What other reason is needed? We try things because we can. It amuses us and keeps us out of trouble.

 

[Bowyer]

I am definitely pro-hillbilly and applaud your efforts... but is that really worth it? I mean you could buy some cheap projectiles for half the price of surplus, and you wouldn't need to screw around with pulling bullets, grinding tips, or wasting the leftover x39 primers. Like, I get the need to tinker, and sometimes the hard way is the fun and more rewarding way, but is there something else I'm missing? Some other benefit to doing this?

The primed surplus cases can be reloaded with heavier, or lighter bullets, and different powders. Costs of cheap bullets can't really be compared to the pile of components you get to play with once you factor in recovered powder and one-time use cases. It's a different sourcing method which offers lots of possibilities for whatever .30cal guns one might have. No end to the fun.

 

[Andy]

I am definitely pro-hillbilly and applaud your efforts... but is that really worth it? I mean you could buy some cheap projectiles for half the price of surplus, and you wouldn't need to screw around with pulling bullets, grinding tips, or wasting the leftover x39 primers. Like, I get the need to tinker, and sometimes the hard way is the fun and more rewarding way, but is there something else I'm missing? Some other benefit to doing this?

I did this because someone stated it couldn't/shouldn't be done and that didn't seem right to me. I had fun, learned something and passed it along. Everyone will have their own reasons, for example might have a bunch of 7.62X39 ammo they got cheap and have no use for, or maybe they're just bored - their time is their own to do as they see fit. What's a waste of time for one, is an engaging, satisfying exercise for another.

But it doesn't pose all kinds of problems, and isn't dangerous.