What year did Rem 700 quality begin to decline?
- Thread starter cdncowboy
- Start date
There are good and bad in all rifles, I've had 2 guns fire without a trigger being pulled, one was an old Win 97 pump that let off a round when I pumped the action and was quickly retired. The other was a Browning A-bolt in 338 that let loose when I released the safety, a gunsmith found some debris in the trigger that interfered with the sear. I had a 280 Ruger that would not shoot better than 2.5" even after bedding yet I don't believe either of these rifles or shotgun were, as a group junk, they were just less spectacular examples of their respective models.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I've been buying and shooting 700s for 5 decades and I intend to continue doing so. There are issues I've had with them, from stocks splitting to extractor failures, but a negligent discharge is always negligent and always the responsibility of the guy holding the rifle. Lethal tools cannot be made totally safe and remain useful, thus the onus is on each of us to ensure our rifles are in mechanically sound condition. Further the onus is on each of us to ensure that we can handle our rifles in a competent manner.
I have a 700 that would fire when the safety was flicked from safe to fire. I always keep the muzzle in a safe direction, so both resulted in no harm. However I would still not classify them as safe, nor were they the result of poor maintiance or a stupid user. It did this right out of the box, with no ttigger adjustment. It would only do it after beong bounced around on my shoulder for a few hours out in the field. Scared the #### out of me the first time. I went online and found out that it can happen if the trigger is adjusted to far out. So I made it as heavy as it would go (x-mark pro adjustable) and gave the tang a few good whacks with a rubber mallet while on safe, did not fire when pushed to fire thought it was good to go. Went after wolves a few months later and after walking in a few hours I flicked the safety to fire and sure enough, bang!
Rifle had trigger replaced under warranty by Remington.
Too many people think that Remington trigger issues are caused by incompetent people screwing with a trigger. This one did it out of the box. Moral of the story, keep the muzzle in a safe direction at all times.
That was a design flaw and all rifles which exibited this flaw were repaired free of charge. I made reference to this above, and yes this was never a flaw of the shooter. I've never bothered to research how many rifles were affected, but I know Rem redesigned the trigger groups after this. This is a sear engagement issue actually, and whoever was adjusting the triggers at the factory and sealing them was just a hair on the fine side........I've set Rem triggers many times to this level and then added a little engagement. It is a situation that can be repeated at will with almost all Rem triggers. Hence the initial thinking that the triggers had been played with. Although there was NOTHING wrong with these triggers except for being adjusted wrong at the factory, Rem decided they had to put in a new trigger group to appease public perception. Which by the way is virtually identical to the original, with a couple minor changes, just enough so it doesn't work with the inletting of the older stocks!!!
Actually if you get right down to it, the problem WAS just "incompetent people screwing with the triggers", unfortunately they worked in the factory !!!
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Good info Doug! Whenever I tell this story on this forum I get many: "you must have done something dumb" remarks. I was pretty choked, but it didn't turn me off Remingtons completely. Big Green does make a good shooting gun with a huge aftermarket. In fact I just bought a new 700P LTR in .223 about 2 hours ago, cleaning it right now
I have an older Remington model 700 from the custom shop that I further customized (chopped barrel and installed new stock) and it's a good gun.
After the 700 VTR experience I wouldn't touch any more Remington firearms with a 10 foot pole.
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Purchased my first 700 in 1965 and once rebarreled gave it to my son.
Probably sold as many 700's as I currently own.
Remington fixed the trigger on one and advised the stock was broken. Since it obviously occurred in shipping they replaced the stock, shipped it back and gave me a cheque for shipping it to them in the first place.
I have regretted selling some of the one's sold but if it was a loss it was someone else's gain.
Enough said . . . guntech and eagleye have already added their expertise and comments.
Probably sold as many 700's as I currently own.
Remington fixed the trigger on one and advised the stock was broken. Since it obviously occurred in shipping they replaced the stock, shipped it back and gave me a cheque for shipping it to them in the first place.
I have regretted selling some of the one's sold but if it was a loss it was someone else's gain.
Enough said . . . guntech and eagleye have already added their expertise and comments.
- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
Still waiting for any of my Model 700s to shoot "bad" or fire accidently. I've tried bumping them, throwing them, slamming the bolt closed....just can't seem to do it. Must be something I'm doing wrong.
I've probably owned more 700's than any other type. I had a couple that AD when the safety was taken off. One was a J-lock on which it seemed impossible to get a low enough trigger pull weight without this happening. I reset the trigger heavy and sent it down the road. I believe the other was also as a result of setting the pull weight too light. Occurrences happened at the bench and no harm was done (other than to my nerves.) I definitely didn't like the J-lock triggers.
Jim
Jim
When they had a problem with the trigger many, many years ago - I don't know if Remington redesigned the trigger other than removing the 'locking the bolt closed' safety... I believe the original problem was with a small batch in a serial number range that had faulty safety lever tolerances.
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I'm not sure I should believe all the people who claim they have had cancer. It's never happened to me.
Depends what kind of decline you're talking about.
Fit and finish has taken a hit on the Express and SPS lines. Wingmaster, XCS shotguns and Sendero and XCR rifles are still top of the line, equal to any Browning or Tikka out there. You can buy a premium or economy grade rifle with the same name on it.
Hammer forged barrels have mostly replaced the button rifled barrels formerly used (I heard Savage bought the tooling for these). Plastic stocks have replaced wooden. Neither of this necessarily means lower quality, even if they are traditionally cheaper products.
I'm now a Remington fan, formerly I liked Browning rifles and Mossberg shotguns for their silky smooth actions and pretty looks, but it's the reliability that keeps me with my Remingtons.
Fit and finish has taken a hit on the Express and SPS lines. Wingmaster, XCS shotguns and Sendero and XCR rifles are still top of the line, equal to any Browning or Tikka out there. You can buy a premium or economy grade rifle with the same name on it.
Hammer forged barrels have mostly replaced the button rifled barrels formerly used (I heard Savage bought the tooling for these). Plastic stocks have replaced wooden. Neither of this necessarily means lower quality, even if they are traditionally cheaper products.
I'm now a Remington fan, formerly I liked Browning rifles and Mossberg shotguns for their silky smooth actions and pretty looks, but it's the reliability that keeps me with my Remingtons.
There is a big difference between poor quality and poor quality control. REM still makes a GREAT gun, you just don't want to be the one with the lemon. I bought a 870MM a few years back. It was awesome, but I handled a couple before choosing that one, and I handle a true nightmare during that process. What a headache that one would have been via mail order!
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
1962, its been 'meh' ever since then, and in reality you have to expect it. The reality is the vast majority of Remingtons guns are designed to be the best they can make on a budget, like Ford or Chev do with cars, rather than the best you can make period. I like to compare thier 74 family withe Brownings BAR, you pay more for the BAR, but you get a better gun. Remington cornered the market by beating others on price point, and took the market with guns that people have an emotional attachment to, rather than the best gun out there, just like Savage did. When people tell me how the 700 is the benchmark of rifle design I cant even muster a laugh any more, the bench mark of how to make a rifle for 200$ maybe, much like a chevy cavalier is the bench mark of how to make a car for 4000$.
While I have never been in awe of the 700, or alot of thier other products I give them credit for making a large amount well, but recognise the flipside of mass budget oriented products, which is when you are already close to the edge its easy to fall over it. If you assume they screw up one manufacturing component in 100, so 1% error, then figure how many processes they do, multiplied by the sheer volume of guns they make, it is not a surprise that some bolts fall off the bolt bodies, some holes dont get tapped, and some barrels dont get rifled.
The reality is they are probably the source of more returns than any other brand of rifle, talk to the distributers and wholesalers about guns they send back that the public never sees, but then look at a stores shelf where they out number other rifles by 20 or even 30 to one. It is what it is.
Ive owned about a dozen Remington 700s, the only issue I ever had was an extractor that broke when I tried to extract the first shell I ever fired out of it. So I had a sako extractor installed, end of problem. That rifle was a 700 xcr rocky mountain elk foundation model in 300rum. With the right hand load it was a tack driver. A failed extractor wont stop me from buying more remingtons, I just make sure I put my time in, in the off season to make sure there are no bugs to work out before hunting season rolls around.
