CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
Agreed! Cheers! I don't usually like to get into these back and forths. However, someone said "here we go..."
Oh, btw you know that mansplaining is the nicest form of condescension....
Cheers, C-Ballz.
What's the deal with Colt Canada SA15.7?
- Thread starter NorthernPF
- Start date
Agreed! Cheers! I don't usually like to get into these back and forths. However, someone said "here we go..."
Oh, btw you know that mansplaining is the nicest form of condescension....
Cheers, C-Ballz.
Mansplaining, funny had to look that one up. Albeit it wouldn't be exactly that as I'd have to have knowledge of the fact that you are a greater expert then I on the subject for that to be the case.
Regardless it's been fun duelling with you Creamy; see there I feel I know you well enough already to use only your first name (so we must be making some progress).
Best of luck getting Zeroed-In.
Cheers D
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Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
For those who have not had the chance to nag them in person Colt Canada reps at CAFSAC were talking about the 30th anniversary guns since 2010.
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
Mansplaining, funny had to look that one up. Albeit it wouldn't be exactly that as I'd have to have knowledge of the fact that you are a greater expert then I on the subject for that to be the case.
Regardless it's been fun duelling with you Creamy; see there I feel I know you well enough already to use only your first name (so we must be making some progress).
Best of luck getting Zeroed-In.
Cheers D
Sorry to bring this back up from the dead, but I just noted something on the 2 C8IURs that I can look at. Both lowers have the keyhole forge mark. Made in the USA baby! Har! Wonder what else is made in the USA on this made in Canada rifle.....
The raw forgings are made in the U.S. by Cerro Fabricated Products. They make 70-80% of all uppers and lowers in the market. At one time, some C7/8 forgings were made by Waltec Forgings Incorporated Ont. not sure why this is no longer the case, cost? Final machining and QA are done in Canada. I guess you have to ask, if countries, SF units and police forces around the world are willing to spend more to procure C7/8 over other products, why is this the case?
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No worries Creamy, however Colt Canada offered a lot of in-depth information regarding these anniversary SA 15.7/SA 20 rifles (and some info. on the IUR's too) back when they were new to the market (when some doubted the quality or value of these fine rifles). This information really allowed one to understand the extreme lengths Colt Canada went through to produce what is likely the best AR style rifle made for military/LEO purposes anywhere in the world. The amount of time/patience/expense that went into the testing/development during their R&D stages with their barrel development is truly amazing, along with the particular process' that are used to produce their barrels/chambers... as is the quality of the barrel blanks they start out with (a CC barrel blank costs more then a Colt USA's completed barrel is one example I remember reading).
The main parts like the barrel, bolt, furniture and a few other pieces are all made/completed in house and every exact piece (including the lower) has to meet with Colt Canada's design parameters and gain approval regarding their more detailed and comprehensive testing/protocols etc. to make the grade. However there are a few small parts that aren't actually completed or built in house IIRC.
Where/what are these C8IUR's you speak of, because as far as I understand from Colt Canada the only people besides our Special Forces (plus foreign Special Forces) and select Canadian LEO's, CC have never produced a complete C8IUR rifle to the public.
Cheers D
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Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Also depending on contract requirements 2 uppers are available for the C8/C7. One is 1913, the other is Weaver. Commercial Colt Canada are 1913 as most accessories on the market are 1913.
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
P
These are federal rifles, not private, with 15.7 barrels. Currently equipped with AimPoints, Ergo grips, Geisile triggers. All the guys I know that are trained on them prefer my M4 or their own AR's because these things are bulky and heavy.... Whoever said they were only 200 grams more is smoking rocks. I'll see if I can get some pics in the future. A funny aside is that none of the guys that are trained on them can empty a mag like my AR when we race. I just don't tell them about the SD 3G I put on.... The speed difference is actually amazing.
**Addition: As for the weight I went and looked at the civilian IUR offered. The reason the weight is only 200 grams different on the offered one is the C8IUR has considerably more rail on the LE model.
These are federal rifles, not private, with 15.7 barrels. Currently equipped with AimPoints, Ergo grips, Geisile triggers. All the guys I know that are trained on them prefer my M4 or their own AR's because these things are bulky and heavy.... Whoever said they were only 200 grams more is smoking rocks. I'll see if I can get some pics in the future. A funny aside is that none of the guys that are trained on them can empty a mag like my AR when we race. I just don't tell them about the SD 3G I put on.... The speed difference is actually amazing.
**Addition: As for the weight I went and looked at the civilian IUR offered. The reason the weight is only 200 grams different on the offered one is the C8IUR has considerably more rail on the LE model.
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This is why I couldn't justify getting a CC, not the price. I'm sure they're ridiculously accurate and you can dump a pile of mags through them on rockn'roll with minimal adverse effects... but that barrel profile. The one I handled felt heavier than my C7 - and that was a C8A3, it didn't even have the IUR. After trying some pencil barreled ARs I just can't go back. Light and fast, like a Carbine's supposed to be. even Gov't profile feels excessive to me now.
You forgot the LMT Sopmod stock, tango down grip, Troy backup sites and Larry Vickers sling.
yes heavy, but damn fine AR. frankly only heavy after a day in the heat with full gear and hard body armor on. although the Surefire flashlight and QD mount on the front of the rail don't make it feel lighter. I have AR rifles I prefer such as my ADCOR and LMT mrp (LMT MRP/MWS are clearly what the lowers were modeled after). It's not a race gun, it is a very nice carbine and frankly I was very pleasantly surprised that it was such high grade and not lowest bidder.
Yes a muzzle brake would make it quicker and insure permanent hearing loss if deployed indoors. taking the flashlight off would also help with weight/balance. The suppressor test unit also looked to have less recoil, although it looked like a PRI gas buster charging handle or something was in order due to all the crud.
I'm waiting until CC sells the C8 IUR in complete form, then I'll do up a RCMP version.
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CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
L
This is a nice carbine if you are going into combat and expect lots and lots of shooting. *maybe* a carbine like this is required for the ERT team. But it isn't for GD use. GD use is a short, light, quick to engage barrel with the realization that police firefights are over in 4 seconds. This gun takes so long to dismount, hooking on everything on the way out of the vehicle, that you are dead, or the fight is over. This is a gun, that no bean counter got a say in. This is a gun that someone who didn't care about the taxpayer got to pick. This is someone throwing the catalogue open to the expensive stuff and simply buying the most expensive thing in the book, without consideration for use. Whoever mentioned the pencil barrel comment was right on. I'm not saying it's not a nice gun. Its a VERY nice gun, with no practicality in the professional manner it's employed and no use in the civilian market except for cool factor and patriotism.
What do you mean the lowers were modelled after an LMT? It's a Cerra forge lower. The same lower Colt USA, Daniel Defence and several others use. Can you explain if I'm missing something?
This is a nice carbine if you are going into combat and expect lots and lots of shooting. *maybe* a carbine like this is required for the ERT team. But it isn't for GD use. GD use is a short, light, quick to engage barrel with the realization that police firefights are over in 4 seconds. This gun takes so long to dismount, hooking on everything on the way out of the vehicle, that you are dead, or the fight is over. This is a gun, that no bean counter got a say in. This is a gun that someone who didn't care about the taxpayer got to pick. This is someone throwing the catalogue open to the expensive stuff and simply buying the most expensive thing in the book, without consideration for use. Whoever mentioned the pencil barrel comment was right on. I'm not saying it's not a nice gun. Its a VERY nice gun, with no practicality in the professional manner it's employed and no use in the civilian market except for cool factor and patriotism.
What do you mean the lowers were modelled after an LMT? It's a Cerra forge lower. The same lower Colt USA, Daniel Defence and several others use. Can you explain if I'm missing something?
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
If they were shopping for Gucci they could have bought HK.
Since we already get the shotguns out of the trunk or roof/console, there is no delay in getting a carbine out. And with a perimeter, time isn't a factor.
If you are in an close up rapid engagement, I would be using a sidearm regardless. You sure wouldn't be pissing around with a locked gun rack.
Nobody is going to drive toward rifle fire, so you would have the time to get prepared. If someone is waiting for you with a rifle at 30 yards, your going to have a bad day regardless.
This said, I look forward to the C8. I think it will make a real difference.
Going to disagree with you on this. I actually think these C8 IUR rifles are going to be game changers. Sure other stuff would work, and cost less. That's the usual course for supplied gear. It was a nice change not to just be making do with what they ordered.
With the lower, I was referring to the ergo grip and LMT sopmod stock as LMT inspired. This is how the LMT comes setup when you buy one.
So proud you're making AR inquiries Eric! Colt Canada make a primo AR. If I had the disposable income I would get one too. Speaking from a practicality stand point a lesser priced AR will get you there too. I settled for a Norinco and I'm quite pleased with it. I was looking for as close to MILSPEC as possible. I made a few upgrades and all things considered I ended up with a very nice carbine at the end of the day. Guys at the range have some high end rifles like BCM and Sig. I can keep up with them no problem and I'm shooting with the A2 carry handle rear sight. The Norinco haters will chime in here I am sure. BUT, if someone held a gun to my head and told me to buy another AR, a C8 would be at the top of my list for sure.
Totally agree with you. We don't need anything shorter or lighter than a C8 for use in the cars. The standard 2 rounds from the holster center mass in 3 seconds is plenty for rapid action. The time that we need a carbine is standing point across the street or yard or when you know you need more than a pistol. Nobody's going to a domestic or a bar fight with a rifle.
These will be game changers.
