Whats with the 375H&H haters?

It’s easy to understand why the H&H is obsolete if we answer these questions :

Why was the H&H case designed the way it was ? (Long tapered case,belted )

Why are cartridges no longer designed the same shape as the H&H?

Answer those questions honestly and it’s easy to understand why it’s obsolete.
 
If there was an "advantage" to the 375 Ruger vs the H&H, it would be action length. Everyone makes a standard action length, only a few do magnum length. a la H&H. Yes the H&H design goes a ways back, but there was a logic behind them. The long tapered cases were good feeders in any action, nice point if whatever you're chasing has big teeth or paws. Look at any of the classic African cartridges, they all had gentle sloping shoulders. The sharp case shoulder is a more recent feature, and they can and do work well, but some actions require massaging to feed properly. Those old sloped shoulder gals fed damn near everytime. Weather it was bolt, or double, the slope reduced the chance of hanging up on the shoulder.

Performance wise, this can be like comparing Whiskey's. You like this brand, I like that brand. Either way, there will be a buzz! Old or new, the job gets done. although when it comes to Whiskey, older IS better! Personal experiences!
 
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Boomer said:
Old isn't always obsolete and new isn't always better. I fail to see how a .375 H&H is analogous to either a rotary phone or an 8 track tape since it performs as well as the newer cartridges that were intended to supplant it, and sales reflect that reality. I doubt you could give away a rotary phone or an 8 track, never mind sell them for profit. The reason for the success of the .375 Ruger comes more from the technology that allows rifles to be made cheaply than it does from cartridge design alone, although the design is very good. The 9.3X62 is another example of an old design that survives because its too good to be declared obsolete. A 9.3X62 rifle can be lighter and handier than a .375 Ruger, and carries more rounds in the magazine, yet in the field, it produces similar observable terminal ballistic performance on game. The 9.3X62 predates the .375 H&H by 3 years, and like the .375 H&H is still going strong. Only time will tell if the .375 Ruger will still be with us a century from now. Out of curiosity, how many manufactures are there of .375 Ruger ammo? Hornady and Swift are the ones I know about, Now, how many manufacturers are there of .375 H&H ammo?
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:) Good info and good example. The 9.3x62, also ;) known, as the ".366 Wagner", is a calibre fairly recently added to the contents of my safe. Have yet to use it in the field but NO complaints on the accuracy with my initial handloads :d .
 
Boomer said:
Old isn't always obsolete and new isn't always better. I fail to see how a .375 H&H is analogous to either a rotary phone or an 8 track tape since it performs as well as the newer cartridges that were intended to supplant it, and sales reflect that reality. I doubt you could give away a rotary phone or an 8 track, never mind sell them for profit. The reason for the success of the .375 Ruger comes more from the technology that allows rifles to be made cheaply than it does from cartridge design alone, although the design is very good. The 9.3X62 is another example of an old design that survives because its too good to be declared obsolete. A 9.3X62 rifle can be lighter and handier than a .375 Ruger, and carries more rounds in the magazine, yet in the field, it produces similar observable terminal ballistic performance on game. The 9.3X62 predates the .375 H&H by 3 years, and like the .375 H&H is still going strong. Only time will tell if the .375 Ruger will still be with us a century from now. Out of curiosity, how many manufactures are there of .375 Ruger ammo? Hornady and Swift are the ones I know about, Now, how many manufacturers are there of .375 H&H ammo?
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From Midway USA they have twenty three products for the 375 H&H and only six Products listed for the 375 Ruger.
https://www.midwayusa.com/375-h-and-h-magnum/br?cid=22380 or eight manufacturers and only three who make it for the Ruger
https://www.midwayusa.com/375-ruger/br?cid=19248
So it might be a reloaders choice or a buyers preference?
Tight Groups,
Rob
 
let's go back a bit further. Power technology has changed immensely, and this helped facilitate modern cartridge designs. Those old gals used a wonderful substance called Cordite. Think of spaghetti. It was horribly sensitive to hot climate, and this was a prime reason for those long sloping shoulders, to reduce the risk of feed and extraction issues. This is where our modern designs have come from, better powders and far more stable in extreme enviornments. Although that performance gap gets pretty small if you use modern powders in the old gals. A.K.A Hornady Heavy magnums.
 
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FLHTCUI said:
From Midway USA they have twenty three products for the 375 H&H and only six Products listed for the 375 Ruger.
https://www.midwayusa.com/375-h-and-h-magnum/br?cid=22380 or eight manufacturers and only three who make it for the Ruger
https://www.midwayusa.com/375-ruger/br?cid=19248
So it might be a reloaders choice or a buyers preference?
Tight Groups,
Rob
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A good point. The best cartridge in the world is useless if you can't find ammo. Found that out a few years back when my wife lost her 7-08 ammo in a south Sk. deer hunt. Shut her down quickly. Now I always carry a spare common caliber rifle, in this case a 308. The look on the guy's faces at 4 Co-ops we stopped at was pretty much a deer in the headlights expression. "You want ammo for a what?!?"
 
Gatehouse said:
It’s easy to understand why the H&H is obsolete if we answer these questions :

Why was the H&H case designed the way it was ? (Long tapered case,belted )

Why are cartridges no longer designed the same shape as the H&H?

Answer those questions honestly and it’s easy to understand why it’s obsolete.
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Gate, respectfully, what you are referring to has nothing to do with obsolescence since the features you refer to do not prevent the cartridge from being used in modern rifles, or from being loaded with modern components, producing accuracy and velocity meeting current standards. Its not as if the .375 H&H was a rimfire cartridge, if it were I might agree with its obsolescence. The .375 H&H will only become obsolete when magnum length action rifles are no longer commercially available, and since long action Winchester M-70s and Remington M-700s have magazines and bolts that are long enough to accommodate it, that won't be any time soon. There are those who argue that the entire concept of propelling a metallic bullet with chemical energy is obsolete, but its still with us, and as long as it is so will be the .45-70, the 9.3X62, the 9X19, and the .375 H&H.
 
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Boomer said:
Gate, respectfully, what you are referring to has nothing to do with obsolescence since the features you refer to do not prevent the cartridge from being used in modern rifles, or from being loaded with modern components, producing accuracy and velocity meeting current standards. Its not as if the .375 H&H was a rimfire cartridge, if it were I might agree with its obsolescence. The .375 H&H will only become obsolete when magnum length action rifles are no longer commercially available, and since long action Winchester M-70s and Remington M-700s have magazines and bolts that are long enough to accommodate it, that won't be any time soon. There are those who argue that the entire concept of propelling a metallic bullet with chemical energy is obsolete, but its still with us, and as long as it it so will be the .45-70, the 9.3X62, the 9X19, and the .375 H&H.
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Roger that! Or a 45 acp, or a 12ga, or a 22 lr……….. This kinda reminds me of the argument between a CCI Stinger 22lr and a regular mini mag version. Makes for a bit of entertainment value.

I guess if one wants to define "obsolete" there's the old argument in car land of small buzzy turbo jobbies versus good old cubic inches. Carburetors versus fuel injection, etc. Both have their fans and critics, either will do the job, just depends how you like to do it. Doesn't mean it's obsolete though.
 
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Boomer said:
Gate, respectfully, what you are referring to has nothing to do with obsolescence since the features you refer to do not prevent the cartridge from being used in modern rifles, or from being loaded with modern components, producing accuracy and velocity meeting current standards. Its not as if the .375 H&H was a rimfire cartridge, if it were I might agree with its obsolescence. The .375 H&H will only become obsolete when magnum length action rifles are no longer commercially available, and since long action Winchester M-70s and Remington M-700s have magazines and bolts that are long enough to accommodate it, that won't be any time soon. There are those who argue that the entire concept of propelling a metallic bullet with chemical energy is obsolete, but its still with us, and as long as it is so will be the .45-70, the 9.3X62, the 9X19, and the .375 H&H.
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And you can still plug a rotary phone into a wall jack and make a phone call.

Nobody is saying we can’t get the H&H to work in some rifles, but the Ruger can work in virtually all of them.

And yet the questions I posed in post #102 remain.... :)

Even if we remove the 375 Ruger from the discussion, and just look at the H&H case design, it’s simpld to see that it’s an obsolete design.
 
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Either, there is some serious envy for the H&H or someone is trolling for good fun...but, having just upchucked in my mouth i'm thinking it is envy and he wishes he could own one.
How many head has the Ruger killed in Africa and North America.
When I can see those results published by SCI then maybe I wont have to upchuck in my mouth and hold it in.
LMAO.
Rob
 
Gatehouse said:
And you can still plug a rotary phone into a wall jack and make a phone call.

Nobody is saying we can’t get the H&H to work in some rifles, but the Ruger can work in virtually all of them.

And yet the questions I posed in post #102 remain.... :)
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The rotary phone can be plugged into the wall, but you can't post on CGN with it; all the young guys have long forgotten that telephones were originally designed to talk on, and they would be baffled when they stuck their fingers in the holes and nothing happened.

The answers to the questions in 102 are simple enough, although they have nothing to do with obsolescence since they don't prevent the cartridge from performing on an equal footing with more recent designs. But I'll go through them just so you know I know. The case was long and slender to accommodate cordite, a propellant that was in long strips, although the specific geometry was differed with burning rate and end use, rather than short grains. Fortunately cordite is no longer available, I recall firing some old .303 cordite rounds and the smell would knock a dead dog off a garbage truck. The belt was to act as a rim for the rimless case, since the slopping shoulder was unsuitable for head spacing the cartridge in the chamber. Although these characteristics are no longer elements of modern cartridge design, the belt remains with us as a necessity for straight wall cartridges like the .458 Winchester, the .458 Lott, the .450 Marlin, and the .500 Wyoming, and for marketing purposes on some modern bottleneck cartridges. Full length cartridges continue to be popular as illustrated by the release of the new Nosler cartridges.
 
There is only room for two 375 Ruger cases in the model 70 magazine. Therefore an 375 h&h maybe better suited for this action with factory bottom metal.
Ruger, Remington, Sako, you can get three 375 Rugers down.
 
IMHO there are 4 calibers (maybe 5) that refuse to die,and deservedly so: 45-70, 6.5 X 55, 30-06 and 375 H&H (303 British, maybe). After well over 100 years, they've come out with a ton of calibers that can do some things marginally better, but overall, they can't be beat. The only ones that came along are the small calibers like the 223 and 22-250 that were markedly different from the old girls.
 
This debate is entirely moot. Nobody, or nothing, on the receiving end of a .375 pill cares what cartridge is was fired from. If whatever you shot with your .375 didn't die it had nothing to do with the cartridge. That being said, I prefer the .375 H&H for most of the reasons listed here. The .375 Ruger is yet another modern solution to a non existing problem.
 
RangerPark said:
This debate is entirely moot. Nobody, or nothing, on the receiving end of a .375 pill cares what cartridge is was fired from. If whatever you shot with your .375 didn't die it had nothing to do with the cartridge. That being said, I prefer the .375 H&H for most of the reasons listed here. The .375 Ruger is yet another modern solution to a non existing problem.
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:) Your clarification hits the nail right on the head :cool:.
 
Buckmastr said:
There is only room for two 375 Ruger cases in the model 70 magazine. Therefore an 375 h&h maybe better suited for this action with factory bottom metal.
Ruger, Remington, Sako, you can get three 375 Rugers down.
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I just put three 375R in a m70 EW 300wm and slid the bolt over the top
 
I was born and raised in South Africa, and lived there for the first 45 years of my life, and I owned (and still own) various 375 H&H rifles, and it's probably my all-time favourite caliber. Way "overkill" for Canadian hunting, unless you're hunting Elk & Moose for which it would be suitable. But in Africa, if you only wanted 1 caliber, the 375 H&H was hard to beat. And there's a certain "nostalgia value" to it too. :) Just my opinion of the old Icon caliber.
 
todbartell said:
I just put three 375R in a m70 EW 300wm and slid the bolt over the top
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Well that’s not happening with any crf classic m70 without a drop floorplate or maybe a flat follower.
How do those 3-375 Ruger rounds stack in the narrow mag box with the gun on its back and the floorplate open?
 
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