When is an antique pistol no longer considered an antique?

bushpilotmexico

bushpilotmexico

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I apologize if this has been asked before but clarification would be of considerable help. Let's say someone owns an S&W Old Army chambered in .32 rimfire. Obviously it was manufactured before 1898 and it's not chambered for a commercial cartridge that is available today. Lets assume this individual buys an H&L reloading kit and loads some ammo. He loads the cylinder and open carries it, lets say in the bush. Lets also assume he or she is stopped by an RCMP office or conservation officer.

Remember the pistol is fully loaded and quite capable of discharging the 5 rounds in the cylinder. What's the outcome of this encounter?

Thx
 
The first charges would be for possession of a loaded firearm, likely laid as a Prohibited firearm. The prosecutor would get a search and seizure warrant to clear the person's house, and suspend their licences. There would be a paragraph on the paperwork about forfeiting everything to the Crown for destruction. The forensics people would have to certify it is indeed a functioning firearm. As to whether a loaded antique is a weapon dangerous to the public peace would be a matter for the lawyers.

So, if you are asking for permission. Don't even try!
 
1. Will depend greatly on how informed the officer you are encountering is.
2. If this 'bush' you are open carrying in is not an area where discharge is prohibited your _final_ outcome will be that you were in fact ok to carry that antique firearm loaded to be used for all legal purposes. But how quickly you get to this and what trouble you are put through on the way there will depend on point 1.
 
You may carry and discharge an antique handgun anywhere you can legally carry and discharge any non-restricted firearm. The pistol must be in plain view, so openly carried. I have a copy of the pertinent regs surrounding antique status pistols in a plastic baggie that I carry with me. It may not stop some cement-headed LEO, but it may slow their roll and it may be educational for some LEO with more maturity and/or brains. As has been so clearly pointed out, being in the right is no guarantee that you won't get trapped in some dystopian bureaucratic legal nightmare.
 
I understand in On. it is against the law to purchase but not to possess ammo.
You do not need PAL to own or shoot, in the appropriate area, any antique in Canada.
 
pingo1365 said:
If you don't have a PAL, possession of ANY live ammunition is an immediate trip to jail. Also, having a loaded Antique status gun without a PAL, immediately changes the classification for the purposes of criminal charges to a non-antique firearm.

I would advise you to NOT even consider doing this without being absolutely certain you are acting lawfully.

Why don't you just ask the your local CFO for classification in writing?

Lastly, what animal, other than a raccoon, do you think a .32RF is going to take down???
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Uhhhh what?? All of that is incorrect. Lol where do people come up with this stuff?
 
I attended a lawyer's seminar on firearms law, and one of the guest speakers was the RCMP's top firearms specialist, or at least that was how it was represented to us. I asked him specifically where one could discharge an antique pistol. His answer was that it could be discharged anywhere a firearm could be legally discharged. So at least one of the guys at the top, knew it was legal. I looked up his name, James Helyer, NWEST (National Weapons Enforcement Support Team).

As an edit, if what you are asking is, when does an antique firearm become the subject of a criminal offence, it would be when it is used in the commision of a crime. I understand it automatically becomes considered a weapon when used to commit a crime. That's my personal opinion though, I have no legal backup for that.
 
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Grizzlypeg said:
As an edit, if what you are asking is, when does an antique firearm become the subject of a criminal offence, it would be when it is used in the commision of a crime. I understand it automatically becomes considered a weapon when used to commit a crime. That's my personal opinion though, I have no legal backup for that.
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Yes. Things that are not firearms for the purposes of the Firearms Act are still firearms for the purposes of most of the criminal code.

Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms

(3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:

  • (a) any antique firearm;
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91-95 covers possession, 99-101 covers trafficking, and 103-107 covers Importing, loss of firearm, altering magazines, 117.03 is "Seizure on failure to produce authorization".

Things like possession for a dangerous purpose, carry concealed weapon, possession of weapon obtained by commission of an offense, B&E to steal a firearm are all still crimes, as are crimes that you would use a firearm in eg murder, robbery, etc.
 
pingo1365 said:
Yes, you do.
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I think I am also going to join the pile on. The only time you need a license to posses ammunition is when it prohibited ammunition and a PAL is not that license. Otherwise a PAL is only required for actual acquisition of non prohibited ammunition, reference possession offences of section 92 subsection 2 Criminal code(R.S.C.,1985, c.C-46)

Now based your signature line I am going to assume you are a business. I wonder if this is the source of confusion because as a business you are required by the Firearms act to have a license for possession.

To be clear currently in Canada, a PAL is required to purchase ammunition, but not to own it.

​

 
Here is a link to the pdf summary of the legal education seminar I attended on firearms.

https://educationcentre.lawsociety....aw-Forum-about-Firearms-June-3-2022-Final.pdf

It basically explained that as long as the firearm met with the "Pig's Eye Test" (can discharge a projectile with a velocity exceeding 214 fps), then it becomes subject to any of the use offences (see page 11 of the pdf), despite not being a firearm for other purposes.
 
There’s the law, and there’s meeting an officer in the bush with what appears to him like a restricted handgun being open carried.

The outcome depends on who you run into, how you compose yourself and what you have with you.

My first thought there is you’re not legally allowed to hunt with a .32RF so the basis for walking around for it loaded doesn’t have much to stand on. The way I would interpret the law, you can discharge it where ever firearms can legally be discharged, and apart from that it has to be transported legally, and since you’re not using it to hunt you’re transporting it, meaning it should be in a case (they recommend a translucent lockable plastic case) and unloaded with the ammo stored in a separate appropriate container.

That said I’ve heard plenty of stories of even retired MNR officers carrying antique revolvers in the bush (this was out west) which is the last consideration. Where you’re located, in Ontario, I think at very least you’re cruising for a stern confrontation. Then again you’re getting opinions of people’s experiences off the internet.

If it was me, I’d call the local ministry office and get in touch with the officer who manages the local crown you’re walking in. They’re just people, and I find they appreciate the responsibility and courtesy of asking first.
 
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