Whitetail with .223?

thebaron said:
Ok, so I was arguing with my dad the other day about .223 and deer. He is very confident that a .223 with a ~70grain bullet is PLENTY for whitetail. His argument is that "if it's good enough to use on people, it's good enough to use on deer"

My argument is that the bullet will just fly apart when it hits the deer and not penetrate nearly enough.

What do you guys think?
(If I win the argument, I will print it out and show him :p)
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Which 70gr bullet are you refering to in this statement?

The military uses FMJ bullets that are designed to resist "flying apart" upon imact.

Other than that, there are many premium bullets that will perform better than your standard 55gr SP ammo from CanTire which is for groundhogs and stuff like that. Nosler makes a 60gr Partition, Barnes makes a good bullets and Speer makes a 70gr SP that I've used with good results on deer.

BUT ........ As mentioned there are better choices than a .223. :)




sc
 
you guys are so fussy! :)

If I had the chance, I would shoot a bear with a .22. If anything went wrong, I'd take the consequence...whatever.
 
to all that hate the 223 that want to get rid of them........please post them in the EE...... so i can buy one for my grandson.....he loves the 22..... but he want to try something with a little more bang
 
Shure you can kill deer with a .223, proper bullet, and proper bullet placement.


BUT WHY is my question??

you can hammer nails with a spoon but you don't (well perhaps you do I don't)

I use a 25-06 for deer because I've shot a few deer sucessfully with it, and in my mind its more then adequate. (its also legal, in Alberta minimum caliber is a 243 for deer)

I also have a 30-30 that I carry because its light and it will also work on deer but it has it limitations as well, short range under 150yds fine.

would I use either of these 2 rifles on moose, only if I had no other rifle and the moose offered me a good clean shot. They would be adequate, with limitations.

My moose gun is a 7mmRemmag, why because it has less limitations when shooting moose,

sort of like hammering nails using a spoon, will it work you bet but you only want to hammer small nails :) and not very often
 
I tend to agree that you can kill a deer with it, hell i would argue the fact you can drop a deer with a 17 HMR if you shoot him in the right spot.
There are many hunters I know that shoot deer with 22-250s in the head, or neck out of there tree stands with a good rest.
I have little doubt that the deer would drop in the hard ball sized brain. On the deer with rather small mass of bone structure.
If you can shoot a hard ball at 50 yards you can kill a deer at 50 yards.
However it comes down to ethics and only taking the shot if you are presented with a clean kill.
With a 223, in the lungs, you will get your deer if you can follow the blood trail? not my way of hunting however, many polar bear have fallen to the 222, 223 round to the neck with one shot.
And you bet many deer have fallen tro these rounds as well.
 
I had a friend in school who was native and they shoot all there caribou with 223rem and 22-250rem he never had any problems. I shoot both on coyotes and wolfs and a 120lbs wolf im my mind would be just as tough if not tougher then a deer and both those calibers will drop a wolf.
 
FWIW, I shot a 80 lb wolf with my 223 this past January, and from the time the muzzle blast stopped its echo, it was stone dead.

Not a 'big game' bullet design either, a 55 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3235 fps. (bullet DID exit)

Probably the size of a small-medium size doe.....

Jan_19_06_007.jpg

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mmm...chicken said:
.223 is a ground hog calibre, and that's all. I've even read that soldiers who are serving in Iraq and Afganistan complain about how ineffective the rounds are on human targets. Hence the big push towards bigger heavier bullets.
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I never really understood that either. A 7.62x39 round will penetrate trees with soldiers hiding behind them (As seen on discovery channel, a document about the vietnam police action/war.... I'm not an expert but wouldnt something in .30 caliber make more sense?) and the .223 didnt penetrate the tree. I think I would want something larger. I wonder if they would replace the .223 and make the .308 round their standard caliber???:confused:
 
powder burner said:
I never really understood that either. A 7.62x39 round will penetrate trees with soldiers hiding behind them (As seen on discovery channel, a document about the Vietnam police action/war.... I'm not an expert but wouldn't something in .30 caliber make more sense?) and the .223 didn't penetrate the tree. I think I would want something larger. I wonder if they would replace the .223 and make the .308 round their standard caliber???:confused:
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are you shooting deer that are hiding behind a tree ???...... if so I would call you unethical.

a .223 is as effective as a crossbow or compound bow given their relative inadequacies.... when used in their "range" and only used when an ethical shot is presented they will both bring home the "beef".
 
i see it as a specialized round for hunting, limited to does and spike bucks. i wouldn't carry it when out and about though as i will have an elk tag in my pocket. the 22-250 knocks smallish deer down like they were hit by a bolt of lightning.

moot point for me really as i don't own a 223, but if someone wants to load one up with 60 grain partition or similar bullet, knows how to shoot, and picks their shot, i hardly consider it a stunt
 
Westicle said:
are you shooting deer that are hiding behind a tree ???...... if so I would call you unethical.

a .223 is as effective as a crossbow or compound bow given their relative inadequacies.... when used in their "range" and only used when an ethical shot is presented they will both bring home the "beef".
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Here we go jumping to conclusions again? Exactly where in my post did I state that I shoot deer behind trees? Assuming I am shooting deer behind trees because I talked about the 7.62x39 vs .223 in the vietnam war, and how the 7.62x39 can penetrate better than a .223 is how you say "unethical"

use the purple deadmass between your ears.:eek:

stupidity is not a crime, therefore you are free to go. :D
 
well I for one always pick my hunting calibers by how far thru a tree they will go :)

now if they used a bullet that wasted all it's energy in the tree and did not exit, then that would be the better round.... so in viet ####ing nam the .223 wins :) (unless the soldiers are hiding behind tree's)

P.s.
I LOVE YOU
 
Westicle said:
well I for one always pick my hunting calibers by how far thru a tree they will go :)

now if they used a bullet that wasted all it's energy in the tree and did not exit, then that would be the better round.... so in viet f**king nam the .223 wins :) (unless the soldiers are hiding behind tree's)

P.s.
I LOVE YOU
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you missed the whole point entirely. do us a favour. find a tall building and jump off.
 
In Vietnam the 223 wins? Kind of like how the Americans won that conflict? Ranges were generally short in Vietnam, with dense undergrowth and cover, placing the sharp shooting but light weight 223 at a distinct disadvantage to the less accurate but brush busting 7.62x39. I believe this is what powder burner is getting at, since he never mentioned once hunting with a 223, or shooting deer through trees.
 
yeah but frankly just because a bullet will go thru a tree does not make it a good hunting round or a good hunting caliber....

I want my hunting bullet to expand properly and dump ALL of its energy in the target and exiting the far side is a moot point if the bullet does no damage
 
Westicle said:
yeah but frankly just because a bullet will go thru a tree does not make it a good hunting round or a good hunting caliber....

I want my hunting bullet to expand properly and dump ALL of its energy in the target and exiting the far side is a moot point if the bullet does no damage
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Okay westicle I can live with that. Just dont make the assumption that I am unethical and shoot through trees at deer, because I dont.
 
I read in the Shooting Times mag. A warden seen a hunting gutting his deer which he shot with .223. The warden ask "Where do you shoot a deer with
.223 for a clean kill"? The hunter replied "Anywhere in the eye" I have used a .22-250 with a 70gr bullet, 33.5 of IMR 4064, this round is 3350fps at the muzzle. I killed a 215lbs deer with it at 177yds, the deer ran for 20yds and fell dead. Anyone using a 338 or 375H&H is not hunting for meat or doesn't know how to shoot.
 
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