Why 45/70 and not .458 Win Mag?

You can load the .45-70 with 400gr FP at about 1835 fps without pressure issues. In a snappy lever rifle thats quite an impressive combo. So in other words you can load the 45-70 to where the 458 WM starts but still in a lever action rifle with numerous quick follow up shots without having to lose your sight picture. 458 WM you're restricted to a heavy and slow to operate bolt action.
 
^ The obvious: the .458WM is firing a 500gr bullet vs the 400gr bullet that the .45-70 is shooting.
To say that that is the same is ludicrous. Even if you load the .45-70 to the same velocity as a reduced load .458WM, there's no comparison.
 
Andy said:
I'm surprised that no-one is claiming that the "45/70 can do everything the 458 WM can do" by now. We've had many threads claiming that in the past. :rolleyes:
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It's the "Godwin's Law" of the 458 WM. Next up, a thread about the 375 H&H and how the 9.3x62 can do..........
 
Andy said:
It's the "Godwin's Law" of the 458 WM. Next up, a thread about the 375 H&H and how the 9.3x62 can do..........
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We had an epic thread in the past about the .270 Win. vs .280 Rem. - did we ever get a definitive answer on which is better?
 
Not everyone likes levers. The rimmed 45/70 sucks in a bolt gun. I'd prefer the 45/70 in a single shot, and there you can really trod on the heals the the 458 win. (if you want to)
 
corner said:
i would go with the .45/70 Lever, more fun!
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Why is a lever 45/70 more fun than a 458 boltgun loaded with light loads equal to a 45/70?

If I just had to have a 45cal, I'd get a military M98 action (not D&T), retain the original safety and trigger, add a Lyman rec sight, with a lighter contour 20" bbl with a good straight stock fitted to the sights. I wouldn't use anything heavier than a 350gr bullet in it. I might do some asking around to those with experience and go with a heavier bbl if needed. I think THAT would be a fun gun!

.
 
SuperCub said:
Why is a lever 45/70 more fun than a 458 boltgun loaded with light loads equal to a 45/70?

If I just had to have a 45cal, I'd get a military M98 action (not D&T), retain the original safety and trigger, add a Lyman rec sight, with a lighter contour 20" bbl with a good straight stock fitted to the sights. I wouldn't use anything heavier than a 350gr bullet in it. I might do some asking around to those with experience and go with a heavier bbl if needed. I think THAT would be a fun gun!

.
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The same question came to mind for me, so, in an effort to keep all options open, I went for one of each:p. A Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 and a model 70 in 458wm:D.
 
bisonhd said:
Not everyone likes levers. The rimmed 45/70 sucks in a bolt gun. I'd prefer the 45/70 in a single shot, and there you can really trod on the heals the the 458 win. (if you want to)
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1) So buy a Ruger No. 1, cripes they sell them every day... just don't delude yourself about the performance.

2) Distant!
Reference:
Hornady 7th Edition.
A max loaded 500gr bullet from the Ruger No. 1 could get to 1800fps at the muzzle. That's the type performance that gave the .458WM a bad rap back in the day and motivated Jack Lott (.458Lott).
A minimum load with the .458WM is listed at 1950fps MV.

The .45-70 cannot do what the .458WM can, but is still a great cartridge.
 
nrut said:
Hey Andy,
I own a 9.3X62 and I'm here to tell you..Same power HALF the recoil! :D
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I own a 9.3 as well. I'm not sure if it has quite the same power - but close. And mine is obviously a hair light because it kicks worse than the Old Man's Whitworth 375. But a 7.5 lb rifle that tosses a 286 gr bullet at 2350 FPS is bound to be snorty. Should do the job nicely though - and that's the key, isn't it?
 
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BigUglyMan said:
I own a 9.3 as well. I'm not sure if it has quite the same power - but close. An dmine is obviously a hair light because it kicks worse than the Old Man's Whitworth 375. But a 7.5 lb rifle that tosses a 286 gr bullet at 2350 FPS is bound to be snorty. Should do the job nicely though - and that's the key, isn't it?
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Hello BUM
I was just yank'n chain eh?
I like all calibers..
It's the "rifle" that is more important to me..
Fairly light, well balanced and pleasing to the eye..:D
 
Andy said:
:bangHead:

All I know is that the 280 rem is way better than the 270 Win - 10 better!
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Of course it is, just take a look at how much farther forward the shoulder is on a .280 Rem. In fact, the .280 has more case capacity than a .30-06!
 
iroc22 said:
What would be interesting if someone released a Ruger Frontier or Remington 600 type bolt rifle in .458 wm. With a properly designed stock for reducing felt recoil, it would be quite a rifle.
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No. It would kill both hunter and game at once.

I've enough pain with the 6.5 lb Model 7 in .308 with that skinny-arsed butt pad, never mind .350 Rem Magnum. More than 20 rounds is distinctly unpleasant. .458 win mag in a rifle that size would be downright brutal.
 
The key term in my post is "properly designed stock". For some reason, American rifle companies can't seem to get it right when attempting to reduce felt recoil via stock design. There are many custom built rigs out there like I described - just nothing offered from the factory.
 
444shooter said:
The Marlin is gonna take a pounding and so will the shooter with 400gr loads at 2000fps. Considering a .458 can easily push 500gr bullets at 2200fps, there is simply no comparison. It's a great cartridge, but has limitations like any other. Then again, the .460 trounces both ;)
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IMHO the .460 Weatherby enters the relm of deminishing returns. A .460 G&A (my vote for the best .458) can drive a 500 gr bullet up to about 2400 fps. Will the Weatherby kill anyhing any deader by adding another 300 fps of muzzle velocity? Not only don't I think so, but I suggest that bullet performance on heavy/dangerous game could suffer, particularly a soft point designed for 2000 fps impact velocities. The advantage of velocity beyond 2400-2500 fps is to flatten trajectory not to increase killing power. If a .458/500 at 2400 won't get the job done, you need to go bigger not faster.
 
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