idontknowjack
CGN Regular
- Location
- SW Ontario
Read it again and again and again until it sinks in. Those are deemed "not to be firearms" exceeding one "or" the other, not a firearm. Exceeding both = firearm.
Why are airsoft guns allowed on the Airgun EE??
- Thread starter fonestar
- Start date
Read it again and again and again until it sinks in. Those are deemed "not to be firearms" exceeding one "or" the other, not a firearm. Exceeding both = firearm.
the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or
(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.
If the gun shoots above 500fps it can't be deemed not to be a firearm anymore. if it shoots below 500 fps but exceeds 5.7 joules it can't be deemed not to be a firearm anymore either is how I'm reading this...
idontknowjack
CGN Regular
- Location
- SW Ontario
It is giving the limits which deem them not to be firearms.
VanIsleCam
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
ha ha ha!
There’s like 10 Airgun posts and two happen to be airsoft. The world is suddenly burning!
Sends "a terrible message" to whom exactly ??
To view threads here you have to be member, to access the EE you have to request it.
By THAT point you should bloody well know the difference between an airsoft gun and an over 500fps air rifle.
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You've inverted the meaning.
Here's the relevant quote:
So any air gun meeting EITHER condition d(i) OR d(ii) are deemed not to be firearms.
Your interpretation would also mean that just about all .22 air rifles require a PAL as they consistently exceed the energy threshold
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
Care to explain how a pellet gun shooting 400 fps is a gun and shooting one is a good use of time while an airsoft gun shooting 400 fps is a toy and waste of time and money?
I'd say mixing fudds with normal firearms enthusiasts on this forum sends a much worse message than combining pellet guns and airsoft. I'll support separating airsoft/airguns right after we start limiting fudds to their own little forum....
You seem like you might be unfamiliar with the inherent variability in airgun performance. The velocity and muzzle energy will vary because of the inefficiencies of energy transfer (friction, air pressure, etc.). Firing an 8.2 grain Meisterkugeln .177 lead pellet will not give half the velocity of a 4.0 grain Skenco Polymatch .177 zinc/aluminum/polymer pellet. The advertised FPS rating of an air gun is its velocity performance with one specific pellet. That is often but not always a lightweight alloy pellet so that the marketing department can slap a higher velocity on the box. If you read airgun reviews (I highly recommend the Pyramyd Air blog at http://pyramydair.com/blog), you'll see this as well as the varying velocities in effect with every air gun. In some cases, the airgun will also outperform its rated max velocity.
Airguns do not have any special ability to reach exactly that velocity regardless of the ammunition used.
The UK's version of non-PAL air guns is 12 ft-lb for rifles and 6 ft-lb for pistols.
France's equivalent is 20J/14ft-lb
German's has a 7.5J (5.5 ft-lb) limit, but compliant air guns are stamped with a proof mark to signify compliance
As an illustration of the variance, look at the KE and chronograph numbers from this review: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/11/weihrauchs-hw55sf-part-2/
The Sig Match Ballistic Alloy gave an average velocity of 811 fps and are a 5.25 grain pellet, giving 7.67 foot-pounds
The RWS R10 gave an average velocity of 624 fps and are a 7 grain pellet, giving 6.05 foot-pounds.
However, the heavier (8.2grain ) Qiang Yuan Olympics gave a higher velocity (626 fps) than two other lighter pellets
In addition to this, going back to Grade 11 physics, the formula for kinetic energy is 1/2 mv[SUP]2[/SUP] where m = mass and v = velocity, so that increases in velocity cause a much larger increase in kinetic energy.
What this means is that manufacturers have models that are de-tuned for specific jurisdictional regulations to ensure that they won't accidentally exceed regulatory limits (before owner modifications).
My guess is that the non-PAL '495' FPS air guns have been detuned so that they shoot far below 495 FPS so that a new pellet will not inadvertently exceed the non-PAL thresholds. DL Airgun used to often have both detuned and full power models of the same design.
From a liability standpoint, the 510 fps Avanti Elite 753 or 530 fps Airforce Edge have not been specifically detuned and an individual gun may exceed the PAL limit with the right pellet so the retailer is erring on the side of caution.
But if the interpretation of the phrasing is of such importance for you, why bother with online hearsay (especially from a primarily firearms forum instead of a dedicated air gun forum) when you could have gone straight to the source and contacted a specialist air gun retailer and found out their reasons for doing so? What is your specific concern?
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Sounds like the OP needs to grow up, either that or he's the angry old person on the block yelling at all the kids.
Most airsoft guns are uncontrolled firearms by law, and as such they are subject to the same laws as most pellet guns. To say that people don't treat airsoft guns with respect is a huge generalization. You obviously know absolutely nothing about airsoft. I could say people don't treat real guns with respect with the number of bullet holes I see in range booths, walls, and ceilings. There are plenty of people that treat airsoft guns with the same respect as real guns. Airsoft guns are also excellent training tools, and are much more realistic than pellet guns. I personally know actual firearms instructors, current service members, and former combat veterans that are active in the airsoft community. If you think airsoft is just for dumb kids, tell that to my friend that took a bullet in Afghanistan after his Chinook was shot down.
Most airsoft guns are uncontrolled firearms by law, and as such they are subject to the same laws as most pellet guns. To say that people don't treat airsoft guns with respect is a huge generalization. You obviously know absolutely nothing about airsoft. I could say people don't treat real guns with respect with the number of bullet holes I see in range booths, walls, and ceilings. There are plenty of people that treat airsoft guns with the same respect as real guns. Airsoft guns are also excellent training tools, and are much more realistic than pellet guns. I personally know actual firearms instructors, current service members, and former combat veterans that are active in the airsoft community. If you think airsoft is just for dumb kids, tell that to my friend that took a bullet in Afghanistan after his Chinook was shot down.
I think my comments on this probably echo most of what's been said already. I don't know a ton about airsoft guns, but recently had to learn a fair bit when my youngest son took a huge interest in them. Plan was to buy a spring-powered "sniper" type, we left the shop allot more informed, and with a select fire/electric AR-style gun instead. Like all guns I've used with my kids (2 teens, one adult now) there is NO difference in the safety protocols when this airsoft gun is used, it get the same respect air guns and firearms do, full-stop. If there is a difference...it might be that I personally haven't a SHRED of interest in them myself, but outside of that...it's another gun=same gun safety measures. (minus hearing protection...so maybe 1 safety protocol is different)
I don't think the EE needs a sub-category for airsoft. NO, it's not technically an air gun, but the air gun EE is probably the best place for them. Just this guy's opinion.
EDIT: I'm reminded about some comments a buddy of mine made (not into rimfires) suggesting that a 22LR is no different than a pellet gun, airsoft gun, etc. Pretty sure the goal was to give me a hard time, but it wasn't the first time I've heard an avid/enthusiastic shooter/hunter be totally dismissive about other facets of the sport that don't interest them personally. I may not be into all types of guns/shooting, but I take an interest in all of it even if I don't pursue most of it myself.
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- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
I was dead set against my stepson using them for shootouts with his friends when he was little. Playing guns with a toy gun as kids was one thing but one that could launch a projectile 300+fps?! No way! That teaches the wrong values on firearms safety as far as I’m concerned. He got bored with it fast shooting plastic bb’s at targets and gave it away but he’s never been bored going to the range with the 10/22’s and mini-14 and bugs me to go constantly.
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
Wait what? When did it become required to have a replica firearms permit to have an airsoft gun?
�� as someone who had played Airsoft for many years and in turnement or at local fields, allot of you are very uneducated in this subject, Airsoft guns are transported to and from the field in a carrying case, just like us firearms owners would have to do anyone who doesn’t buy a Airsoft at Walmart respects the rules. Airsoft has its own mature Comunity that are very mature and considering 95% of players are over 24-40 years old, It’s a very respectful law abiding crowd. Who ever thinks bad or talks in a bad way about it is as ignorant as liberals towards our Canadian gun laws, the best opinion you can have is an educated one.
