Why are Canadian's too good to patch when they shoot?

Madness

Madness

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I'm curious as to why we can't patch are own targets at the National Championships. What's the big deal you patch when you shoot anyother time so why not at the nationals? You can't use the fact that it's a level 3 to support it because provincials are level 3's and you patch when you shoot those. I don't see any advantage to it but a few dis-advantages. You don't have any down time to check out the surronding area, the stage has 5 or more extra people that are looking for space in the shade and its very boaring being the shooter. I'm sure someone will try to say that its better for the shooter, how? It doesn't give them any extra time to check out the stage since only the shooter and on deck person are allowed on the stage, so those 2 plus the shooter who just went don't patch the other 7 or more people are more then capable of resetting the stage. Patching gives you something to do while you're not shooting, or on deck and it allows those who are not shooting on that day to not be at the range.
So I ask again, what makes us so special that we need to have other people patch for our squad?
 
What's the big deal you patch when you shoot anyother time so why not at the nationals? You can't use the fact that it's a level 3 to support it because provincials are level 3's and you patch when you shoot those.
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That's not actually true, I suspect it depends on which Section you are in. For example, here in Alberta we do not patch our own targets, we have a "work squad" and a "shoot squad" where we work for half the day and shoot for half the day. I don't believe it has always been that way since the first match I shot we patched our own targets, but having done both I definitely prefer to have it the way we presently do (work squad and shoot squad). As a shooter you have time to load your mags (hard to do that if you're patching targets), time to relax, have a drink if you need it, socialize a bit, etc. before you're up. I haven't seen a problem with extra people hanging around either, although for a smaller range I can see that happening.

For me personally it isn't all about getting the shooting done as quickly as I can, it's about shooting, meeting new people, socializing, contributing where I can to the betterment of our sport, etc. Having a shoot squad and a work squad either helps me do all of those things or gives me the time to do all of those things.
 
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I've had plenty of time to relax, load mags, hydrate myself and socilize during large area matches and national matches while having to patch for my own squad.
 
Madness said:
I've had plenty of time to relax, load mags, hydrate myself and socilize during large area matches and national matches while having to patch for my own squad.
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also to...sit in your lawn chair...fall asleep...snore....have someone yell in your ear that it's your turn to shoot...jump up like your ass in on fire (now only partially asleep)...shoot...hit every no shoot on the range :p

Of course I'm just pulling this out of the air
 
I think it does give the shooter a bit more time to be in the game, and not having to worry about patching and such, when they might have to load mags still or clean them, or something like that. We don't patch at our Provincials either, and some of our regular level II's we don't too, if there are enough people working shooters shouldn't need to.
 
In Sask' we paid the markers a reasonable day's pay to haul target frames and once a year to help make new ones or do repairs. It was easier than commiting someone to drive 3 hours each way to do labour and maybe have an necessarily bad relay. It also allowed the use of provincial sports' funding to pay for 'first order scoring officials'.

In my experience, as soon as the shooters could afford to pay someone to pull targets, they did so happily. At the Nationals, the DCRA has had a variety of provided marking over the years. Probably cadets years ago. Then civilian kids, and maybe 20 yrs ago the franchise was taken over by girls from Smiths Falls. It has livened up the camp and give the young studly shooters something else to aim at and hit on. In its own small way, the DCRA has been doing its part to improve interprovincial relations other than in the team matches.
 
Because we cannot trust ourselves... the perception that a person on a particular squad would cover for a team mate or friend...its bad enough with tape measures. It would be like the wolves guarding the chickens... sooner or later someone would find a way to exploit it for an advantage ... thats the Political way of saying "Cheating."
 
maple leaf eh - I don't think that this discussion is about fullbore slowfire prone competition.....
 
Patching Targets at the Nationals

Madness said:I'm curious as to why we can't patch are own targets at the National Championships. What's the big deal you patch when you shoot anyother time so why not at the nationals?
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Madness,You obviously don't realize the tradition in place here!

How else could you turn a 3 day match into a full 5 or 6 days without everyone involved having to be at the match all day so those not shooting could fight over who's going to patch that target?

It's actually a money saving scheme, once you spend all that cash to fly across the country the last thing you would want is any spare time to see the sights, that cost big bucks. Another good thing is that range food is relatively cheap so you save money by only eating there too.

The three 1/2 day formula where you patch your own squad's targets is to be avoided at all costs. You would only shoot morning or afternoon alternately and have too much free time to spend money at local bars and restaurants. This format would only allow for 18 stages.

The biggest problem is the 1/2 day format means there would have to be dedicated RO's and that will never do.
Competing shooters RO'ing each other in in totally different ways on different days is what makes the Canadian Nationals so special.

Thank god we have these special Canadian traditions to keep us on the straight and narrow.

If we start changing the Canadian Nat's format what will be next!, a classification system where we compare ourselves to thew worlds best so we can see how much we suck!

No Thank You!
 
Well lets see if we can drum up people who only want to work the Nats as RO's so that we don't have to have the "inconsistent RO'ing" that you are talking about Ipsik. I agree that the current format isn't perfect, but until someone steps up to the plate and does something better, it's what we are stuck with.
I could be wrong, but I think that most shooters prefer not having to patch their own squads.
 
tiriaq said:
maple leaf eh - I don't think that this discussion is about fullbore slowfire prone competition.....
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Right you are Tiriaq! I was reading through the New Posts lists and only read the title. Having pulled target frames on rifle matches and stuck sticky patches at IPSC matches, I read the word Nationals and thought it was rifles.

There goes my one mistake per month and it's only the 15th. I'll have to curl up in a ball and not go to work until February.
 
Ipsik said:
If we start changing the Canadian Nat's format what will be next!, a classification system where we compare ourselves to thew worlds best so we can see how much we suck!

No Thank You!
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We have that Mike...it's called ICS :rolleyes:
 
Well having been around long enough to have been on self ROing squads, working/shooting squads and work only shot only squads, I can tell you that I prefer the work only or shot only format. I find that it allows me to better have my head in the game because I find that if I am working/shooting sooner or later I am going to be working and getting yelled at that it is my turn to shoot and get up to shoot without a plan in my head, and believe me I am no where near the top of the heap!


As for having time to sight see while at a match, guess what? I take holidays to do that. if I am traveling more then two times zones I like to get the match area two or three days before the match, maybe do a little sight seeing etc before the match and then usually after the match take a week to holiday. When I am at the match I am there to shoot the best match I can. I gave up shooting matches with a hangover when RP moved to Saskatchewan! honestly, If I am going to spend a couple of thousands dollars to go to a match I want to do the best I can and that means that during the match I want to try and be in the best shape both mental and physical that I can be.

As for the comment about ROing, guess what, that is why we have permanent CROs on the stages. To make sure that the stage is run consistently each and every day.
 
Slavex said:
Well lets see if we can drum up people who only want to work the Nats as RO's so that we don't have to have the "inconsistent RO'ing" that you are talking about Ipsik. I agree that the current format isn't perfect, but until someone steps up to the plate and does something better, it's what we are stuck with.
I could be wrong, but I think that most shooters prefer not having to patch their own squads.
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Vancouver will be my first Nationals, depending on how I do I may just tell Walter I'll RO the entire 2008 Nationals when it is here in Alberta (and I'll be lucky to be a solid "C" shooter against the rest of you top guys! :dancingbanana: ).
 
Quigley said:
also to...sit in your lawn chair...fall asleep...snore....have someone yell in your ear that it's your turn to shoot...jump up like your ass in on fire (now only partially asleep)...shoot...hit every no shoot on the range :p

Of course I'm just pulling this out of the air
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I've only fallen asleep during the N.B. Nationals, and at the Florida open which also has a huge chuck of down time during the day.
 
+1 for Ipsik's post, never thought I'd be typing that:D

"As for the comment about ROing, guess what, that is why we have permanent CROs on the stages. To make sure that the stage is run consistently each and every day." Well then some of them need to pay more attention to what their RO's are doing.

"It would be like the wolves guarding the chickens... sooner or later someone would find a way to exploit it for an advantage ... thats the Political way of saying "Cheating." Nice to see you have so much faith in sportsmanship. If you want to be that paranoid then all the teams need to shoot on the same day so that members of a provinces open team don't help out their standard team.

"If I am going to spend a couple of thousands dollars to go to a match I want to do the best I can and that means that during the match I want to try and be in the best shape both mental and physical that I can be." So when I watched the God Squad at US Nats the last couple of years they were not at the top of their game because they had to patch? On a 10+ squad if you don't have enough time to patch and get your game plan you need to work on your stage prep big time.

I'm aware that we don't have the resources to pull off a full time CRO and RO staff at the Nat's, but I don't aggree with using that to justify putting all the off day shooters on the range to patch. I'm sure if you give the RO's enough incentive to RO on their down time they probably would.
 
Its a volunteer sport where the shooters at the Nationals are volun-told to work.
If you volunteer to RO the US nationals and are excepted into the work crew you get your rooms covered, meals covered on the range and some amount per day for off range meals, a seprate well stocked prize table just for the staff, and high end knife laser etched with that years logo, possibly a few other perks too. They also don't get to shoot the match for score against the other shooters, but there is still a list of people who want to work it.
I think our CRO's get their rooms covered but is their match fee covered also? Maybe cover the CRO's and any other fulltimers fee and give anybody who wants to RO on their off time a discounted fee.
 
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This is rediculous... no one is forcing you NOT to work if you really want to. Instead of complaining, why don't you just grab some patches and patch on your down time.

When shooting at a National or Provincial shoot, I for one would rather socialize with good friends and prepare to shoot than patch. I usually go out and help setup the match... do you? Pretty much every shooter spends a non-shooting day working so that the competitors can concentrate on what they are there for... competing.
 
"help setup the match... do you?" :eek: nope, you busted me, I have never set up, tore down or done more then the absolute minimum needed to shoot at any level IPSC or USPSA match during my entire time shooting and I tend to keep it that way.:rolleyes:
Actually, you are being forced, if you skip out of your working you get DQ'd. or you could just pay to be a stage sponsor and not have to do anything at all.
If someone can't get their game plan together and patch for their squad at the same time then maybe they should re think entering a large match. What next, make the shoots easier because not everyone can shoot the match clean?
"concentrate on what they are there for... competing." Over thinking a stage is just as bad as not thinking enough so how much time do you need to "Concentrate" on your shooting?
 
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