Why are Canadian's too good to patch when they shoot?

Lots of advice on how things should be run at a match but how many have actually been a Match Director? It can be a eye openning experience.

Now I am curious, who has been a match director for a Level III match. With say a minimum of 100 competitors in attendance?
 
Been there, done that. Chatham Invitational 96 & 97. Over an hour drive from our residences, on rented Range and during great Ontario split (let's never go there again). Talk about no help. Having dedicated range staff was huge saving grace and likely strained a few friendships. The other was having a preshoot of staff and a few gamers to point out any last min. flaws in a stage.
 
DVC1911 said:
Lots of advice on how things should be run at a match but how many have actually been a Match Director? It can be a eye openning experience.

Now I am curious, who has been a match director for a Level III match. With say a minimum of 100 competitors in attendance?
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My start was in 1996 when some people hoped I would fail, but this stubborn Croatian does not know how to do that..anyways..that is another story.

Since that time I have successfully organised and ran many Guelph Invitational, Ontario Provincials, 2000 Canadian Nationals and again this year doing the Ontario Provincials. Let me tell you something..without dedicated CRO's on every stage(pit) that are there for the entire match and many Ro's that come out to help it would be impossible task to complete.

I do have to say that beside CRO & RO, you must have a group of dedicated individuals that will get you to the match day.. I have been fortunate to have worked with these individuals over the yeas, but there is one in particular that has been there for me from day 1, individual who has give a great deal of himself for the sport of IPSC and where his handle is appropriately "IPSK" my dear friend Mike A.

Where am I going with this...It is easy to run a match and figure out the expenses, when you sit in the chair, in front of the computer on this forum, why don't you get involved..step up to the plate, do it.. and then and only then.. will you have any idea what it takes to run a match.

Josko
 
"...It is easy to run a match and figure out the expenses, when you sit in the chair, in front of the computer on this forum, why don't you get involved..step up to the plate, do it.. and then and only then.. will you have any idea what it takes to run a match.

Josko[/QUOTE]"

I thought that was you Josko. Thank you for illustrating my point.

All the people that are Match Directors. Thank you for volunteering your time so that we all can enjoy our sports.

DVC
 
It's worth pointing out that paying all of a CRO or RO's expenses isn't the same thing as "compensating" them. You have to pay the person for their labor, as well. Nevermind lost wages.

Anything less than that, and you are still relying on volunteers.
 
Nationals

Bartledan said:
You make it sound like only people who have run level III's can do math.
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Only people who have actually run matches know what costs what, and what can or can't be paid for. So, my guess is that judging from your math and opinions you haven't run any matches and are just guessing at how it's done. If you knew anything about it, you'd know that all CRO's and RM's are paid for by IPSC Canada for starters.....
You can state your preference for what you like or don't like, or what you would like to see, but no lectures on how it's done please!!!!;)
 
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Nationals

DVC1911 said:
Lots of advice on how things should be run at a match but how many have actually been a Match Director? It can be a eye openning experience.

Now I am curious, who has been a match director for a Level III match. With say a minimum of 100 competitors in attendance?
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Started the Guelph Practical Pistol League in 1998, where I did almost everything myself for the first year, and ran for 2 1/2 years with 2 dozen or so Level II's, MD'd the Guelph Invitational Level III in 2002, ran more level II's in 2002, Helped run the first few Guelph Open Level III from 1995, etc,etc,etc....
Sooo..... which Canadian Nationals had dedicated match staff?? We're not talking about the CRO program here. As I understand it, western Canada was even against the CRO program when it was instituted. Does this explain the resistance to a dedicated staff?
 
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Bartledan said:
It's worth pointing out that paying all of a CRO or RO's expenses isn't the same thing as "compensating" them. You have to pay the person for their labor, as well. Nevermind lost wages.

Anything less than that, and you are still relying on volunteers.
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you are correct in you statement, however when it comes to this sport and time that few of us do spend in organising the matches for enjoyment of others then (in my and Mike's case) IPSC and it's memberships owes us a great deal of $$ probably enough to retire. But we are all volunteers and we do it because we want to and not because there is this big payout at the end.
Having sad this I still would like to see a one set of CRO's and RO's on the same range with consistent RO'ing at the Canadian Nationals. Patching has nothing to do with this..if you can't get your equipment(mags) cleaned and ready for the next stage with a squad of 10-15 competitors and still be able to help with patching..you should be looking at different sport.

My question is, Why can't we get IPSC Canada to pay for the part of the expenses and if that don't work let us start a CRO/RO fund where we allocate portion of the proceeds from the Canadian Nationals and use it to pay for dedicated range crew.
 
DVC1911 said- There has been dedicated CRO's and at the last six nationals.
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You suggested that there had beed dedicated RO's at previous nationals and things were problematic. So in actual fact there have not been dedicated RO's at the Canadian Nats

DVC1911 said -Lots of advice on how things should be run at a match but how many have actually been a Match Director? It can be a eye openning experience.

Now I am curious, who has been a match director for a Level III match. With say a minimum of 100 competitors in attendance?
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I have worked with Alex and Josko on many level III matches....I previously posted how much it would actually cost to have dedicated ( in this instance meaning RO's who do not shoot at the same or alternating times as the competitors) or non competing ( except for prematch) RO's from knowledge I have gained at those matches.

We have also noted how screwed up things become when the RO staff is inconsistant...sure you can suffer through it at a smaller match.

I beleive non competing RO's can be done within a reasonable match budget at least for the Canadian National Championship.

What it all really comes down the match commitee's desire to make a profit or desire to put on the best match possible.
 
Profit - what profit? That not why we put on events. If we wanted to make money we would do something else. You should that a lot of "voluntee" man hours dedicated to puting on a match.

DVC
 
A lot of clubs make a profit on matches they hold, usually it goes into club coffers. Often part of match fees are used to pay for berm improvement or props or cnaopies or range improvements etc., etc., but the club still keeps it after the match so it is profit in the form of capital property.
 
I have an idea! AFAIK, the 2009 Nationals haven't been spoken for yet. This year's are in BC and next year's are in Alberta so it wouldn't be unreasonable to have the 2009 Nationals in Ontario. AlexS, Ipsick, et al, your ideas have merit and you seem to have lots of prior experience. Why not take the opportunity to demonstrate that your ideas are valid and workable by bidding for the 2009 Nationals? As MDs, you can budget the match as you like and work out a plan to have dedicated CROs and ROs (with appropriate financial recompense), no prizes ar giveaways as you see fit, and schedule the squads/shooters to shoot 3 half days or whatever. Prove all the naysayers wrong and set a new standard for others to follow....
 
Would not the 2009s be in the East?

As to Profit is in indeed a factor.

There is no way the I could have built all the props that I have for IPSC at EESA over the past two years if we did not make profit from out matches.

30 + poppers a mover, 4 swingers and 70 odd plates do not just appear.
 
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well said Mass. i would hold heartly support a bid by those name to hold the 2009 Nationals.

there is no set schedule for where Nationals are held. it is a matter of having ranges that are big enough to hold it and people willing to invest the two years necessary into it.
 
Dragoon said I have an idea! AFAIK, the 2009 Nationals haven't been spoken for yet. This year's are in BC and next year's are in Alberta so it wouldn't be unreasonable to have the 2009 Nationals in Ontario. AlexS, Ipsick, et al, your ideas have merit and you seem to have lots of prior experience.
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This has already been considered and if it was to be held at our club then there would be dedicated CRO and RO staff.
We are panning at least dedicated CROs and as much as possible the same ROs for the Ont Provicials which is taking most of our planning at the moment.
We will see what will happen in 2 years and more people than myself will need to be involved so it is not just for me to say.

Whats wrong with Alberta starting the trend in 2008?
 
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