Why do Canadian guided hunts costs so damn much compared to international hunts?
- Thread starter Northern Shooter
- Start date
freddyfour
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
Nice! Where you going and with who?
I want to book my next hunt, like hearing where guys book and why.
I think it’s because everything in Canada is more expensive. There are many places in the world with much better value for money and in Canada for whatever reason everything is just more expensive. There’s a vibe of everyone wants a big payday and they don’t want to do it for less, can’t be bothered y’a know? I’ve seen this throughout various goods and services here compared to other countries. That’s my guess why they’re charging so much for those hunts- because they can and just don’t want to do it for less, lol.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I know a few western and northern premier species outfitters who make a comfortable living. None are rich by outfitting unless they were born into a big territory and operation, in other words it takes generations. And even most of the second or even third generation guys just make a comfortable blue collar living as well, and don’t make money until they leave the business and sell their territory.
My territory and gear was most of a million, much of it mortgaged against my home. The annual operating costs running a floatplane and ocean boat, jet boat, and guide staff… then insuring it all… would make your eyes water. Then the guide staff wages. Then food and drink, insurance, trade show travel to market. And then you spread your territory mortgage payment and all those expenses over just an effectively 60 day prime season, with spring bear and fishing to keep the wheels turning but not move the needle much. Before you know it you have to sell 25-50k all up hunts. And the clientele are there to book them, so why would the outfitter risk their livelihood charging less than sustainable rates.
It seems a pervasive attitude from some folks, the prices must be gouging. That just shows a disconnect in understanding. The rates are quite simply the cost of something incredibly expensive to provide and offer, with incredibly high demand for limited tags. Canada, in particular the Yukon, NWT, and BC has the best marquee game (mountain) hunting in the world when all is considered for game and political climate. That means there’s competition for the tags on the buyer’s end, the territory sales, and the tags. It all adds up to an expensive pursuit.
Hope that adds some clarity.
My territory and gear was most of a million, much of it mortgaged against my home. The annual operating costs running a floatplane and ocean boat, jet boat, and guide staff… then insuring it all… would make your eyes water. Then the guide staff wages. Then food and drink, insurance, trade show travel to market. And then you spread your territory mortgage payment and all those expenses over just an effectively 60 day prime season, with spring bear and fishing to keep the wheels turning but not move the needle much. Before you know it you have to sell 25-50k all up hunts. And the clientele are there to book them, so why would the outfitter risk their livelihood charging less than sustainable rates.
It seems a pervasive attitude from some folks, the prices must be gouging. That just shows a disconnect in understanding. The rates are quite simply the cost of something incredibly expensive to provide and offer, with incredibly high demand for limited tags. Canada, in particular the Yukon, NWT, and BC has the best marquee game (mountain) hunting in the world when all is considered for game and political climate. That means there’s competition for the tags on the buyer’s end, the territory sales, and the tags. It all adds up to an expensive pursuit.
Hope that adds some clarity.
I think these days (well actually the last couple of decades) Western Canada G/O territories need to be looked at as investing in revenue generating real estate. Not much different than buying an apartment building or a strip mall.
The landlord (outfitter) must get tenants (hunting clients) to pay for the investment and provide income for the client. In return the tenants get something back. Hopefully the landlord/outfitter is able to keep his spots filled and in the end the property appreciates and he is able to sell for a profit or pass it on to his children.
The difference of course is that real estate regulations are clear and entrenched while G/O investments are subject to a huge amount of variables.
Being an outfitter is a lifestyle choice for many but it's still a business that you must invest in and requires you to make money. There sure isn't the "old days" of someone showing up in a small town, going to the local gun/hardware store and saying "Hey my buddies and I need a guide for moose for a week, who is going to come? Like my father told me would happen when he lived in small town eastern Canada circa 1950.
Hey maybe that still happens somewhere- but not in BC.
And outfitters are gonna charge what it takes to make a profit and what the market will bear.
The landlord (outfitter) must get tenants (hunting clients) to pay for the investment and provide income for the client. In return the tenants get something back. Hopefully the landlord/outfitter is able to keep his spots filled and in the end the property appreciates and he is able to sell for a profit or pass it on to his children.
The difference of course is that real estate regulations are clear and entrenched while G/O investments are subject to a huge amount of variables.
Being an outfitter is a lifestyle choice for many but it's still a business that you must invest in and requires you to make money. There sure isn't the "old days" of someone showing up in a small town, going to the local gun/hardware store and saying "Hey my buddies and I need a guide for moose for a week, who is going to come? Like my father told me would happen when he lived in small town eastern Canada circa 1950.
Hey maybe that still happens somewhere- but not in BC.
And outfitters are gonna charge what it takes to make a profit and what the market will bear.
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bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Duly noted, but in all fairness you were in it for a relatively short time. The outfitters that have been at it for a few decades are making good coin when moose and the cheap sheep is at $40k US.
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It's not so bad that someone makes money. Especially if they are business people that had to work very hard for the first few years (or decade) to get into a position where they are making a profit and not just buying themselves a cool job.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Right, but you missed my point. It's like the poor grain farmer that bought $4m worth of new equipment.
Ontario is rife with it, poor supply management farmers, multimillion dollar “stick” barn yet the quota value dwarfs it.
Tags are still relatively affordable in Ontario, know a few guys that bought them because the points system is retarded for moose.
Trimmer 905
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yessir. If you call an Ontario resort for cabin availability,the minute you tell them you're a resident hunter,they're suddenly "booked up".
How did they "buy" them? It's a very serious offense that could cost an outfitter their license and hunters all their gear plus thousands in fines.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This question
Fair, seven years as outfitter, it was certainly enough to know how it works. It is a different business out west, the territories are often over a million of acres of very rugged ground and as in my case no road access. Having to own the territories and the equipment be they twenty horses, or floatplanes & boats, it’s just a different game.
Your fixed annual costs to operate a mountain outfit in BC are way into six figures, and you have to recoup that and earn your living and your guides in a 60 day season on limited allocated tags. When there’s a line up of people who want to shoot those tags, there’s no way you’re going to risk a loss.
I helped many residents get their animals, on rates a quarter of what using one of my allocated tags cost. Somebody posted a US guide as a comparable that was offering that service, bring your own tag, and that can be very affordable. You just can’t give away the allocations to people you don’t know just to be nice.
Now I’ve said it before, I’d likely do black bears and fishing local to home if I did it again. Though I’d certainly never give back the years flying the bushplane in the mountains or running the boats in the ocean and rivers chasing coastal bears and mountain goats. But they were hard and very expensive to offer, and as such so were the hunts.
These conversations always gravitate to the high demand species, the stuff that goes on magazine covers. That’s much more thirst for that than tags and quota can quench, and they can’t be given away. A mountains and what live in them seize the imagination, a hunt in them is a much different deal.
Fair, seven years as outfitter, it was certainly enough to know how it works. It is a different business out west, the territories are often over a million of acres of very rugged ground and as in my case no road access. Having to own the territories and the equipment be they twenty horses, or floatplanes & boats, it’s just a different game.
Your fixed annual costs to operate a mountain outfit in BC are way into six figures, and you have to recoup that and earn your living and your guides in a 60 day season on limited allocated tags. When there’s a line up of people who want to shoot those tags, there’s no way you’re going to risk a loss.
I helped many residents get their animals, on rates a quarter of what using one of my allocated tags cost. Somebody posted a US guide as a comparable that was offering that service, bring your own tag, and that can be very affordable. You just can’t give away the allocations to people you don’t know just to be nice.
Now I’ve said it before, I’d likely do black bears and fishing local to home if I did it again. Though I’d certainly never give back the years flying the bushplane in the mountains or running the boats in the ocean and rivers chasing coastal bears and mountain goats. But they were hard and very expensive to offer, and as such so were the hunts.
These conversations always gravitate to the high demand species, the stuff that goes on magazine covers. That’s much more thirst for that than tags and quota can quench, and they can’t be given away. A mountains and what live in them seize the imagination, a hunt in them is a much different deal.
During covid they were allowed to, was only a couple grand per guy.
It was more than a one time , one year thing
The natives sell fish, to the public why not moose meat and/or hunts. We had a few of them at work this summer. Stories of shooting 30 ish woodland caribou just because they got close to the fly in Rez/town
I’ve posted this story many times, working on manitoulin a co-worker would buy lake trout that was hill netted on Georgian bay for 5 bucks a fish, regardless of size. They just wanted the whitefish for smoking
It’s strange the natives up here won’t hunt, shoot or eat deer meat not sure why.
Or alternately; he needed to buy 4 million dollars worth of equipment with no guarantee of prices or even getting a crop. Farmers are doing well right now; but it wasn’t/isn’t always like that. I hope they kick ass so I can raise my rents
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I've hunted with a couple guides over the years but not on booked hunts where i was a paying customer. These were friends that invited me along.
I have never paid for a hunting guide or outfitter but I have and do pay good money for certain fishing guides. Mostly because they have equipment and access to waters I couldn't fish otherwise. Mostly talking Steelhead fishing here and I haven't done a trip since before Covid.
There are still some hunts I need to scratch off my bucket list..... Cariboo, Bison a mature 6pt or better Elk ..... a California Big Horn and I'd like to go Pronghorn hunting..... I know I can't physically go for goats and most sheep so those are off my list sadly. Can't afford a guided hunt these days but maybe one day...... it would probably be the Elk hunt if I hire someone to put me on the animals. Wish I knew some serious elk hunters to mentor with but those offers are slim to none haha
I have never paid for a hunting guide or outfitter but I have and do pay good money for certain fishing guides. Mostly because they have equipment and access to waters I couldn't fish otherwise. Mostly talking Steelhead fishing here and I haven't done a trip since before Covid.
There are still some hunts I need to scratch off my bucket list..... Cariboo, Bison a mature 6pt or better Elk ..... a California Big Horn and I'd like to go Pronghorn hunting..... I know I can't physically go for goats and most sheep so those are off my list sadly. Can't afford a guided hunt these days but maybe one day...... it would probably be the Elk hunt if I hire someone to put me on the animals. Wish I knew some serious elk hunters to mentor with but those offers are slim to none haha
freddyfour
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
Although it didn't end up working out in the end I can attest to this statement, most likely the best offer for a guided hunt I will ever get in my lifetime .
I did do an Elk hunt last fall and I actually left wondering how the outfitter made any money on me. Horses, feed, cabin, staff, fuel and guide, I wonder what was left over for him at the end?!
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