Why do Canadian guided hunts costs so damn much compared to international hunts?

The difference I believe you’ll find is outfitting is managed as primarily tourism rather than as primarily resource, the revenue producing product is the clients themselves rather than being a market value of skin and skull like a cubic meter of wood or a head of cattle. The experience is the sold product, there’s no skin and skull guarantee or product finished available at market with a $30k price tag on it. The royalty on a 2 week goat hunt was $350 for instance.

The thing we did pay more for was client use days on our permits, but those don’t care what the activity is, just if clients are present and where. This applies to any ‘upgrades’ over the bare land lease- permitted cabins, park permits, permanent camps and fuel / gear caches, etc and is on top of your lease and is billed in client days, those add up. It’s the same way other tourism leases like heli ski operate and are charged. I think that’s the difference, if it’s managed as tourism, or resource production.

The gov just wants them bringing money into BC that wasn’t here before, they don’t really care what they do day to day in the field and would actually probably be happier if it was only photos.
 
Ardent said:
I set the prices, in the end it cost what it cost to operate, and I followed the standard model to start then adjusted it to ensure I could make a living for us based on our factors (quota, access costs, territory payments, staff salary). There was certainly never any fretting we were charging too much or would be awash in cash, the hard thinking was always concerned about ending up short. To summarize, we followed the model then adapted it to fit. It’s a competitive industry at the end of the day, like any business.
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Back on prices, why are some species like elk much cheaper than others? higher population sizes? not as remote territories? easier hunt?

I've got $10,000 as the magic number in my head and I'm seeing several elk hunts for less than that.
 
Ardent said:
The difference I believe you’ll find is outfitting is managed as primarily tourism rather than as primarily resource, the revenue producing product is the clients themselves rather than being a market value of skin and skull like a cubic meter of wood or a head of cattle. The experience is the sold product, there’s no skin and skull guarantee or product finished available at market with a $30k price tag on it. The royalty on a 2 week goat hunt was $350 for instance.

The thing we did pay more for was client use days on our permits, but those don’t care what the activity is, just if clients are present and where. This applies to any ‘upgrades’ over the bare land lease- permitted cabins, park permits, permanent camps and fuel / gear caches, etc and is on top of your lease and is billed in client days, those add up. It’s the same way other tourism leases like heli ski operate and are charged. I think that’s the difference, if it’s managed as tourism, or resource production.

The gov just wants them bringing money into BC that wasn’t here before, they don’t really care what they do day to day in the field and would actually probably be happier if it was only photos.
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So if I can sell photos of Christmas Trees for more than the Stumpage they won't cancel my hypothetical permit?
 
Northern Shooter said:
Back on prices, why are some species like elk much cheaper than others? higher population sizes? not as remote territories? easier hunt?

I've got $10,000 as the magic number in my head and I'm seeing several elk hunts for less than that.
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Yep all of the above, elk and tags therefore are plentiful and they’re available over much more of North America. Not so for mountain goats, sheep, grizzlies, and the areas to hunt those are far more expensive and harder to access. Elk, you’ve got a broad market and available habitat, they adapt to human presence a lot better hence why the mountain states are covered with them.

MiG25 said:
So if I can sell photos of Christmas Trees for more than the Stumpage they won't cancel my hypothetical permit?
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That’s a pure production deal, I’ve only dealt with tourism based leases. But I’m sure if the gov made their money you could convince them it’s sound.

Raton57 said:
Tags for guides in Alberta are sold at auction for many areas. Plus some of the seasons are short so they can't have multiple clients .
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Another way of managing supply and demand, and as a consequence prices go up. There’s only so many head of trophy’s on the land, there’s always going to be the supply and demand problem.
 
Desjard said:
Well in Canada those species you list in your first post, the indians just slaughter them year after year so that alone drives the price up for these hunts. Outfitters get more tags than residents do and indians have a free for all. No one wants to say it but it's been said.
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are these comments based on the reality in your area?
I know some areas of the country have issues but I don't see that here in BC for the most part.
just as many Non Indigenous poachers in BC as there are native ones.

What I have found disturbing is gaining the knowledge about a guide outfitter in region 6 who get FIFTY moose tags every year. They hold lots of territory but first they kill every moose they can find within a few kilometers of the base property. Local Indigenous and Non Indigenous hunters are getting pretty fed up with it but this family has some serious connections. The father who is retiring the business has raised two sons that are ruthless hunters and have little regard for resident and indigenous hunters.
Been all over BC hunting and I have yet to witness any outright poaching or "slaughtering" of the animals on the land.
Now if you want to talk salmon.... we could share some stories that fit your narrative but , at least here in BC, slaughtering the animals across the land just isn't happening. 50 moose tags to just one guide outfitter in a region that closed most of it's prime moose hunting areas that are accessable to average resident hunters. Makes my blood boil a little.
 
45ACPKING said:
are these comments based on the reality in your area?
I know some areas of the country have issues but I don't see that here in BC for the most part.
just as many Non Indigenous poachers in BC as there are native ones.

What I have found disturbing is gaining the knowledge about a guide outfitter in region 6 who get FIFTY moose tags every year. They hold lots of territory but first they kill every moose they can find within a few kilometers of the base property. Local Indigenous and Non Indigenous hunters are getting pretty fed up with it but this family has some serious connections. The father who is retiring the business has raised two sons that are ruthless hunters and have little regard for resident and indigenous hunters.
Been all over BC hunting and I have yet to witness any outright poaching or "slaughtering" of the animals on the land.
Now if you want to talk salmon.... we could share some stories that fit your narrative but , at least here in BC, slaughtering the animals across the land just isn't happening. 50 moose tags to just one guide outfitter in a region that closed most of it's prime moose hunting areas that are accessable to average resident hunters. Makes my blood boil a little.
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50 tags? Cripes.
 
It's probably been said, but aren't hunts priced for Europeans and Americans, and the more some people pay the more valuable they think whatever they bought is. ;)
 
BC Region 6 Nanika lake outfitters is for sale..guide.monopoly on 800,000 acres 5 year allocation 29 moose tags and 7 goats.
No general open season for residents for moose.
 
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Northern Shooter said:
Before I started to explore this topic my perceptions were the complete opposite.

I was under the impression that an African plains game hunt/Dangerous Game hunt would be 6 figures minimum and reserved for the most wealthy in society.
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When I went for Buffalo and plains game in Zimbabwe in 2010 the whole hunt, including flights, hunt, shipping, and taxidermy was around $30K Canadian. I was not, and am still not, one of the most wealthy in society, but that was also booked before I had kids and I did make good money. The hunt was booked in January 2009 and took place in July 2010. Taxidermy was shipped back and done in Moose Jaw (shoutout to Orion Taxidermy) and was probably completed in April of 2011 with the last piece completed in September 2011. So the costs were spread out over a couple of years which makes them more manageable. And that is the key...spread the payments out. If you sign on for a hunt that is a couple of years out, maybe even three. Then you have lots of time to put the money away and pay it off bit by bit (if you try to save the money, you probably won't, but if you put the money out to the company semi-annually or quarterly and you will be able to do it).

Would never have guessed that Canadian Goat/Sheep hunting could approach 100k or caribou would be 10s of thousands.
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No kidding. If I had known the way prices would go I definitely would have taken advantage when I lived in BC and the NWT (missed out on four sheep species because it never occurred to me that I would want to hunt them later on). And I should have taken advantage of the opportunity that Ardent offered me when he was starting his outfitting business. That was stupid.

Long story short...be the Department of Yes.
 
Ardent said:
Take with a grain of salt. I have the current region 6 allocations letter, and those going back quite some time. There’s nothing remotely close to 50 a year in there.
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sure you are the all knowing Ardent LOL

TUKI Lodge, Babine Lake..... look it up and get back to us.
My friends have lived a stones throw from them for years. I was told 50 tags
 
Just have actually done it, and have the actual numbers.

As always take what you hear over beer or read on the Internet with salt before you run with it. The highest allocation in region 6 and by large margin is 14 a year, and works out to roughly one in every 100,000 acres as it’s a particularly big territory. The Little Nanika territory mentioned above has a similar area to harvest ratio, as its number is also over five years (6 bulls a year in 800,000 acres, and just over 1 goat a year).

I’m not the regional biologist to decide if that’s sustainable but it doesn’t sound absurd when considered rationally. I personally would like to see a two year moose and caribou moratorium while we ascertain factors causing the population decline, that applies to everyone.
 
Ardent said:
Take with a grain of salt. I have the current region 6 allocations letter, and those going back quite some time. There’s nothing remotely close to 50 a year in there.
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Many quotas are 'x' in 3 or 5 year period? allowing for variations in success year to year
so 50 in 5 = 10/yr but that could be 5 one yr then 15 the next as long as the total is not exceeded
 
boxhitch said:
Many quotas are 'x' in 3 or 5 year period? allowing for variations in success year to year
so 50 in 5 = 10/yr but that could be 5 one yr then 15 the next as long as the total is not exceeded
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They’re 5 year blocks so the outfitters can book clients ahead, and you can only take less than 1/3rd in any given year of the five to allow for weather, Covid, etc flexibility. You can’t do it all in two years, or triple the next year.
 
boxhitch said:
yeah, down with capitalism!
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Indeed, I challenge any of those raising the pitchforks and torches shouting greed to put their money where their mouths are and go spend a most of a million or few. Buy a territory for a marquee big game species only available in a few areas of the continent, then sell the hunts on the cheap to shakeup the industry. I’d watch how that goes with intrigue.

Yet again there’s the real world, and then there’s the internet. Everyone wants a stone sheep etc. There are only so many out there to shoot, and the guys offering the hunts have to pay up front to offer the service. Supply, and demand. It also matters for guys buying outfits, as it does for the clients.
 
45ACPKING said:
are these comments based on the reality in your area?
I know some areas of the country have issues but I don't see that here in BC for the most part.
just as many Non Indigenous poachers in BC as there are native ones.

What I have found disturbing is gaining the knowledge about a guide outfitter in region 6 who get FIFTY moose tags every year. They hold lots of territory but first they kill every moose they can find within a few kilometers of the base property. Local Indigenous and Non Indigenous hunters are getting pretty fed up with it but this family has some serious connections. The father who is retiring the business has raised two sons that are ruthless hunters and have little regard for resident and indigenous hunters.
Been all over BC hunting and I have yet to witness any outright poaching or "slaughtering" of the animals on the land.
Now if you want to talk salmon.... we could share some stories that fit your narrative but , at least here in BC, slaughtering the animals across the land just isn't happening. 50 moose tags to just one guide outfitter in a region that closed most of it's prime moose hunting areas that are accessable to average resident hunters. Makes my blood boil a little.
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Alberta.

Go up near Edson in spring and you'll find moose dead heads bunched together from the natives. All shot after season.
Mountain goat is closed in AB, "rumor" from F&W is mountain goat is very traditional and so only the more equals can still shoot them year round as many as possible, same with short rams, etc.
 
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