Why groups at long range are the same as close range.

hawk-i said:
Does that vapour trail display the actual bullet flight path or an atmospheric condition?

I've seen similar vapour trails from high flying jet aircraft?

Neat pic! thanks for sharing
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No, the change in pressure from high to low causes moisture to condense; the spiral appearance is caused by centrifugal force spinning off the vapor trail.
 
keegs said:
Sorry Maple but I had to drag this little gem out of the reloading forum, and bring it to this thread. Your comments are in exact contradiction to everything you’re saying to us simpletons in this thread.

So now I will ask. Which comment of yours do you stand beside? Groups shrink, or they don’t.
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Lol you just had to dig this one back up hey.
 
If it don't shoot at 100 it ain't going to shoot further out. If you think you have a good load at 100 shoot it at 200. So.etimes you would be amazed it is not that good. Time it at 200 to shrink the group then shoot it at 100 again.
 
keegs said:
Sorry Maple but I had to drag this little gem out of the reloading forum, and bring it to this thread. Your comments are in exact contradiction to everything you’re saying to us simpletons in this thread.

So now I will ask. Which comment of yours do you stand beside? Groups shrink, or they don’t.
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You almost made a good point, except you have missed the entire point of this thread, as with others who have jumped on the simpleton band wagon seeking fault in the logic while missing the point completely.

I'm not going to explain it any further... I can explain it for you but I cannot understand it for you... Sorry.
 
Munkey1973 said:
man.... I think that people who believe this idea that certain bullets stabilize more so down range (than they would at close range), are the same guys you meet at the range who have their rifles zeroed for 100 yards and they are absolutely convinced that their "bullets rise" when they leave the muzzle..... they are truely convinced of this because they are shooting 1/8 to 1/4 inch higher when they shoot at 50 yards. They don't understand that the scope's POA is a ray (i.e straight line) and that the bullet path is a decreasing non-linear function. Because of what they just witnessed, they believe that the bullet went up... hit a peak at 50 yards... then it started to come back down and hit the point of aim at 100 yards.

No... that is not how it happened.

FUD LORE that bullets rise when they leave the barrel !

Its hard to explain to them that bullet begins to fall the instant it leaves the barrel.... Likewise, it is equally difficult to explain to them that a bullet looses it stability the moment it leaves the barrel as well.

More FUD LORE that bullets gain stability in flight !

What is next ?

Will someone try and convince me that certain projectiles gain velocity while in flight? That they "build up" speed and travel faster at 500 yards than they do at 100 yards?
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Long story but a friend of a friend got charged and convicted, lost his gun and all that years ago. They were sighting in a 338 lapua. First ever shots. Down along the river. Into an old stump. The first 2 bullets hit the water. The rest did not and they fired less than 10.

Over a mile down that way 2 bullets hit a concrete wall a foot apart. Basement wall of a house I believe. Rcmp responded and patrolled the area and found these guys fishing after they were done sighting in. In court their ballistics expert claimed a bullet hitting water wouldn't loose stability, but would get a tremendous increase in volocity from hitting water. They found him guilty.
 
cycbb486 said:
If it don't shoot at 100 it ain't going to shoot further out. If you think you have a good load at 100 shoot it at 200. So.etimes you would be amazed it is not that good. Time it at 200 to shrink the group then shoot it at 100 again.
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Its a wise practice to do final load work on long range guns at long range. Its alot of work but it can be very eye opening.

Last long range 308 I had. I developed 3 loads that shot sub half moa at 100. All with varget, 2 with 175 sierra matchkings and 1 with 178 eldm

Took them all out to 600 yards. 1 single 10 shot group with each load. Hornady were not even moa. 1 sierra load was right at moa. One was sub 3/4 moa and had 7 of 10 in less than 3 inches. There was 0 difference at 100 yards between these 3 loads.
 
prairie lover said:
Long story but a friend of a friend got charged and convicted, lost his gun and all that years ago. They were sighting in a 338 lapua. First ever shots. Down along the river. Into an old stump. The first 2 bullets hit the water. The rest did not and they fired less than 10.

Over a mile down that way 2 bullets hit a concrete wall a foot apart. Basement wall of a house I believe. Rcmp responded and patrolled the area and found these guys fishing after they were done sighting in. In court their ballistics expert claimed a bullet hitting water wouldn't loose stability, but would get a tremendous increase in volocity from hitting water. They found him guilty.
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ricochet can be pretty amazing.
obviously wouldn't increase velocity, but can certainly change trajectory.


Have you ever seen a machine gun night shoot with tracer ricochet off the impact area? like a fan of lead hundreds of meters into the night sky....
And there is 4 more bullets for every one you see.... Videos dont do it justice for scale....

 
Daver_II said:
ricochet can be pretty amazing.
obviously wouldn't increase velocity, but can certainly change trajectory.


Have you ever seen a machine gun night shoot with tracer ricochet off the impact area? like a fan of lead hundreds of meters into the night sky....
And there is 4 more bullets for every one you see.... Videos dont do it justice for scale....

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Yes but no way will a bullet slap water and keep its accuracy and stability to hold a 12 inch group at a mile. Not a chance in h e double hockeysticks. Those bullets are tumbling and wouldn't go a quarter mile.
 
prairie lover said:
Long story but a friend of a friend got charged and convicted, lost his gun and all that years ago. They were sighting in a 338 lapua. First ever shots. Down along the river. Into an old stump. The first 2 bullets hit the water. The rest did not and they fired less than 10.

Over a mile down that way 2 bullets hit a concrete wall a foot apart. Basement wall of a house I believe. Rcmp responded and patrolled the area and found these guys fishing after they were done sighting in. In court their ballistics expert claimed a bullet hitting water wouldn't loose stability, but would get a tremendous increase in volocity from hitting water. They found him guilty.
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It's physically impossible for an object to speed up after hitting water.
 
Alpheus said:
I don't follow a lot of youtube gun channels, I only know of practicaltactical because of that hilarious bungee cord bipod.
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I’ll forgive you as long as you come for beers with Tokay, and a bunch of us next time I fly out for nationals. My shout(tab)!
 
kthomas said:
It's physically impossible for an object to speed up after hitting water.
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Some people just didn't pay attention in physics, if it changed direction it had to slow down...I also just can't see it hitting water first and then carrying on for a mile, unless that angle was really small.

Daver_II said:
ricochet can be pretty amazing.
obviously wouldn't increase velocity, but can certainly change trajectory.


Have you ever seen a machine gun night shoot with tracer ricochet off the impact area? like a fan of lead hundreds of meters into the night sky....
And there is 4 more bullets for every one you see.... Videos dont do it justice for scale....
Click to expand...

The reason why any Infantryman who's been on a night live fire can tell you that Clown in his F-16 murdered some of our troops...
 
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Alpheus said:
I don't follow a lot of youtube gun channels, I only know of practicaltactical because of that hilarious bungee cord bipod.
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Ya, its just like fat chics and mopeds...
A lot of fun till someone sees you with one.
 
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