Why I don't compete

M

maynard

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I guess this is directed more to those sitting on the fence when it come to shooting formal matches. These can be Provincial Rifle Association or National DCRA matches.

The ORA and DCRA have been offering F Class style shooting with a class just for Factory rifles. The response has been slow for shooters to take up the challenge. F(M) class is what is it called and is designed for entry level shooters, shooting an off-the-shelf rifle.
This rifle is limited to modification that you can do to it. It must have a factory barrel and must be chambered in a factory offering for that rifle. It can be bedded and the barrel recrowned. You may also add to or take away from the factory stock. Any scope can be mounted and triggers must be safe.

So the question is. Why aren't more people getting involved?
Chances are you may already have a rifle that will suit the need, or you can get in the game for under $1000.

Is it the cost of the rifle that is keeping shooters away? The cost of membership into your PRA or DCRA? The cost of entry fees? The cost of reloading or ammo? Is it time involved for practice and competition? Or maybe the whole unknown part about your personal skill against other shooters? The cost of travel to a suitable range or match?

Please remember this F(M) Class is intended for entry level shooter.
Why don't you compete?
 
For me and others up here it is the distance!
I am into pushing our range to 1,000 meters, however, so opur members can shoot a "modified" courrse of fire at long rangge.
Cat
 
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Cat,
From what I can see you guys have a very active shooting program out there. Maybe not formal matches, but at least there is some exposure to long range shooting.
I would love to come out and shoot with you guys some time, but you would have to give me your word the snow is gone. :D
 
I'm interested for sure and i even have the startup equipment, its just way to far to the nearest range capable of more than 300m.

So for now I'm quite content ringing the gong at a gravel pit where I can get out to 600m. Maybe next year when I move West I will get lucky and land near a club with a long range.
 
I used to shoot 200m bench-rest a number of years ago. It was interesting and fun to work with the rifle and the loads, and to gain an understanding about the extraneous matters that affect the path of the bullet. But at the end of the day, there is little excitement in the activity and interest in fighting these extraneous and uncontrolable elements eventually turns into frustration. There's nothing wrong with a little frustration, but there is little counter-balancing "excitement" in "non-action" shooting endeavours.

After many years of shooting, I still find that the actual "pulling of the trigger" soon constitutes only a minor portion of the "fun" of the activity. I admit that I shoot for fun, and that I'm not one of the few driven by a personal, singular need to "be the best", so there has to be more to the activity than hitting the bull. I have recently discovered one of the action-shooting sports (IPSC) and have recognized that there are many facets to the game past hitting the target. Also, since this particular action game is substantially a group activity, there is the extra element of fellowship in it.

This is only my personal take on the issue of shooting sports, but you asked...:D
 
maynard said:
Cat,
From what I can see you guys have a very active shooting program out there. Maybe not formal matches, but at least there is some exposure to long range shooting.
I would love to come out and shoot with you guys some time, but you would have to give me your word the snow is gone. :D
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We have a very active club and although we hold formal competitions, we are not engaging in sanctioned shoots.
As far as the snow goes, it has snowed in every month of the year, so I ain't promisin' nuthin'!:rolleyes:
The upside is we have a super strong biathalon club!:D :dancingbanana:
Cat
 
Who is the target community of interest? How are you getting the word out to them? How many can you confirm have been reached? If you aren't getting any uptake, much less feedback, it could be because few are aware.

Possible hindrances:

- simple lack of interest in this type of shooting. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I understand it to be an agonizingly slow type of competition with many minutes between shots ZZZZZZZZ
- how many hoops have to be jumped through to get qualified? How often and where are the courses if any?
- how often and where are the competitions? How much does it cost?
- how friendly are the competitions? Is it "stone-faced don't look at or talk to me" or "way to go!"?

I've read a bit on the DCRA website and am left with the impression that the organization is stuffy and bureaucratic. By this I mean that competitors will have everything they use examined, measured, weighed - you name it, and during the competition the same idea will apply. This will turn many off all by itself. Now don't get defensive - this is only an impression I have, and if true, likely has a good reason behind it, but if you are wondering why interest is weak, you need to know all the possible whys.
 
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I think precision shooting is personal thing. I shoot for myself. I like being alone on the range. Focus-breathing-position-finger placement etc. I don't need or look for validation from others.

I am happy if my grouping shrinks by half an inch.
 
I am interested in competing in F(M) class. Is there any training that is required?
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No training is required, but taking some is highly recommended. See below...

All events are at Range Burlington, King Road, Burlington.
Fees per event are payable on the day. Pre-book to make sure of a space.

Saturday January 13th 2007 9am – 12 noon $10
Long Range Training Part 1 - Reloading for Long Range Accuracy.

Saturday March 10th 2007 - $20
Long Range Training – Part 2 - Equipment etc. Bring your favourite long-range rifle.

Saturday April 21st 2007 - $20
Long Range Training – Part 3 - Wind etc. Bring your favourite long-range rifle.

April or May (Date to be announced) – AT BASE BORDEN - $40
Long Range Training – Part 4 - Practical experience – Putting it all together at 500/600 yards.

Contact promotions@OntarioRifleAssociation.org for more details or to reserve a space.
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately, it boils down to interest. Competitive rifle target shooting isn't on most radars. Never has been.

Look at the number of shooters at a local IPSC or sporting clays or trap shooting event. how many show up at a 3D archery shoot? Way more then I have ever seen at a rifle comp...ever!

Now add the many different forms of rifle competition. Divide that a bit further by interests and location. Voila, not a huge turnout.

For me, I feel that F class is the right competition. It includes LR shooting, tech, strategy, ALOT of shooting, scoring feedback, and moderate equipment costs.

It is the only competition where you can use commercial actions even factory rifles and win. Equipment costs do not need to be high. In fact, it is the least expensive for shooting at the highest levels. Shooting and doping skills still rule the outcome.

The enormous growth is testament to this fact. It is just a lot of fun even if you are in last place.

I looked at BR where equipment is so critical to success. Costs were way up there but more importantly, you just don't shoot enough. Go to a match, shoot your relay, don't do well enough to advance, go home.

Like drag racing eliminations, all your efforts, cost, and time can be over in a heartbeat.

With F class, you will shoot your relays no matter how good or badly you shoot. That can be 80 to 265rds over a long match event. That's alot of shooting.

I think that as interest increases and more shooters try it out, momentum will grow. Like silhouette and IPSC, it doesn't last forever, and there will be its problems. All we can do is keep participating, inviting others to come out and try it.

As for equipment inspections, I see no problem with that. Just go to any car race and see what happens during tech inspections....

Jerry
 
I am a "Westerner", so I'm not sure if my reply is wanted. I belonged to a very active gun club in the 80's and early 90's out here in SK. We consciously tried to be "inclusive", keeping in mind that we needed new members to stay alive. We tried to set shooting events that could include the novice/first-time shooter, as well as events for the "advanced". Ours was very much an "atta boy" atmosphere. We we very fortunate to have an outdoor range where we could shoot almost any type of event - long range, shotgun, you name it. Our main focus was to have fun. We were able to keep our "fees" to a minimum, and were lucky to not have to cater to any "snobs" or land development. We openly talked about not becoming to "sophisticated" with our contests or equipment requirements. We fully realized that each shooter is different and would have his or her preferences, but still tried to maintain a reasonable appeareance to the public and any prospective members. Because everybody got to know everybody else, bringing a new person to the range was not cause for suspicious looks and grumbling about "strangers" taking over. We trusted each other's judgement. I must admit that a few eyebrows went up when I brought a First Nations fellow to a shoot. We soon swallowed him up and he became "hooked". Being "inclusive" isn't going to work everywhere. Some of the "old boy" clubs are destined to dry up. Most new people are not going to feel too welcome. So be it.
 
Maynard said it right. Get your nice rifles out and come shoot long distances, just like they were designed to do. Git off the 100 yard range and truly learn how great your kit is.

Maynard and I often read about such accurate bangsticks, that's fabulous, but we need to see more of them at our long range matches. Let's use them while we still can or at least before Osama Bin Layton and Dion ban our evil bangsticks.

Come on out !!
 
Range Access & Schedule Issues

I did the intro session at Kingston in 2005 and attended some practice sessions, and I joined the ORA and took the winter training in 2006. It was excellent and I enjoyed it.

But access to MoD ranges and cancellations seemed to be recurring problems - as seen on the ORA website. Have these been resolved?

In my case as a shift worker getting time off for matches is a problem, particularly weekends during the summer. It doesn't help when the schedule is either not posted early in the season and/or changed partway through.

I realize that ORA access to ranges will always be subordinate to MoD requirements, but some situations (such as when we showed up at Winona to find no RSO or anyone else on hand) are difficult to understand and accept.

The attitude of at least one RSO was also a bit discouraging; hopefully this is an isolated problem.

I plan to renew and try again in 2007, but at the end of the day there is only so much time and so much money to spend on shooting, so while these are all minor issues in my case there is a cumulative aspect to them that makes it easier to do something else.

Snapshot
 
Andy said:
Who is the target community of interest? How are you getting the word out to them? How many can you confirm have been reached? If you aren't getting any uptake, much less feedback, it could be because few are aware.

Possible hindrances:

- simple lack of interest in this type of shooting. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I understand it to be an agonizingly slow type of competition with many minutes between shots ZZZZZZZZ
- how many hoops have to be jumped through to get qualified? How often and where are the courses if any?
- how often and where are the competitions? How much does it cost?
- how friendly are the competitions? Is it "stone-faced don't look at or talk to me" or "way to go!"?

I've read a bit on the DCRA website and am left with the impression that the organization is stuffy and bureaucratic. By this I mean that competitors will have everything they use examined, measured, weighed - you name it, and during the competition the same idea will apply. This will turn many off all by itself. Now don't get defensive - this is only an impression I have, and if true, likely has a good reason behind it, but if you are wondering why interest is weak, you need to know all the possible whys.
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Andy, for you there are at least 3 ranges within easy driving distance.
Ottawa, Kingston, Barrie, and i believe there is one arround Montreal, however that is only speculation on my part.
Time between shots usually is between 30 seconds and 1 minute, definitly not fast paced, but relaxing.
Attending an intro day is the biggest hoop. costs $30, free rifle and ammo, and 2 days of shooting included. Not a very big hoop.
competitions vary in cost depending on the number of days of shooting, as little as $15, up to several hundred for 2 weeks @ Ottawa DCRA Match.
Absolutely the most friendly atmosphere possible. Every competitor will go out of their way to help anyone. Stuffy, definitly not.
Checks, I had my rifle weighed at the DCRA match in Ottawa 1 X. Thats it.
There are some bullet/velocity restrictions at some of the ranges. Anything under 147 gr. you should be OK at all of the ranges.
You posted some good questions. Got any more???
 
"I looked at BR where equipment is so critical to success. Costs were way up there but more importantly, you just don't shoot enough. Go to a match, shoot your relay, don't do well enough to advance, go home."
You must be thinking of something besides bench rest. You shoot all of your relays, no matter how bad you do. I have seen guys win a agg., even with a bad relay. I think that from what I have seen with new people showing up to compete, if they realize that the only competition is with your self, ( I like to shoot a better group than the previous group) then they will continue competing. Most shooters don't compete because they can't shoot as well as they say, and will be proven wrong if they have witnesses. How many times have you heard of a gun that shoots em in one hole, all day long, right from the factory? I remember a guy at Russells who had a .270 that did that until he showed up at a match in Lethbridge with it. Turns out the only one hole group he could shoot was if he only fired one shot. Needless to say he didn't "compete for long. He quit because there were too many expensive guns on the line and he wasn't going to spend that kind of money. He owned a Blazzer and a double rifle, either one which cost 5 or 6 times my accurized remington. Some people like to compete and some don't. Simple as that.
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maynard said:
I guess this is directed more to those sitting on the fence when it come to shooting formal matches. These can be Provincial Rifle Association or National DCRA matches.


So the question is. Why aren't more people getting involved?
Chances are you may already have a rifle that will suit the need, or you can get in the game for under $1000.


Please remember this F(M) Class is intended for entry level shooter.
Why don't you compete?
Click to expand...
I omitted the parts of your questions related to the gun/equipment/reloading/etc. I have what I believe to be a suitable off-the-shelf gun, I reload, and I'm not worried about competing with others. For me, it's not an equipment problem, it's a people problem.

As for sitting on the fence - I fell off...backwards. I did an intro days a few years ago at Mons. I pre-registered and later confirmed my registration. Never having dealt with anyone in the ORA I didn't know how formal or informal the process was.

The morning I showed up I was directed to the building that would be our classroom. There was no record of me being signed up for this intro day:confused: Before we actually got started, the guy who would be our teacher was talking to me about the low percentage of people who attended an intro day that actually returned to join the ORA, or even for a second day of fun. I asked what knd of follow-up or debreifing he does at the end of the day or shortly after and he had no response.:rolleyes: The fee for the day was to include the use of a rifle:) ammo:) a rule book:( a chamber flag:( something to indicate we were eligible for 1 free return for a match or practice day:(. As you can see 3 for 5.

Out to the range to shoot at 300yds - great fun. Take a turn in the butts to learn how to score - more fun. Walking back to the firing line from the butts on the last relay of the day to see our teacher/instructor driving away - no fun:mad:

This was a small group that day as I recall, about 6 or 7 of us newbs. I don't know what was said to the 3 or 4 that were on the firing line, but the three of us that were on butt duty at the end of the day never so much as got a 'see you later' or 'that's what ORA is all about' or any parting words. The RSO (R Lee Ermey) looked at us and barked goodbye.

The end of the day was supposed to have been back in the shack for a follow-up, and to help us make sense of the application form/fee structure:confused: ( a whole clusterf**k in itself).

The following year at the Sportsman's show, the ORA had a table set-up. Unfortunately at the time it was manned by the same person who was so unimpressive at the range.

I still shoot my rifle - at Silverdale & Winona - without the ORA. I bought a few handguns and compete regularly in IPSC.

This is my sad story, YMMV.
 
I looked at BR where equipment is so critical to success.

I hear this crap all the time, if you don't touch that trigger at the right time I don't care if you are shooting the top of the line Charles Daley shotgun, IPSIC, F-Class or whatever pierce of equipment you have, you lose! The most expensive rifle out there still counts on you doing your job.

Costs were way up there.

I beg to differ with the cost. I have seen some of the sniper and F-Class rifles costs and they are not cheap from $2000.00 to $5000.00 depending how serious you want to get. That will buy you a top of the line BR rig


but more importantly, you just don't shoot enough.

Well now I am in the dark here because I do not know how many rounds a F-Class shooter puts out in a weekend. I know that at a BR match you are looking at, counting tuning, sighter's, and target about 300 rds. Now you can get away with a lot less if you want to because you only need 100 rounds to count

Go to a match, shoot your relay, don't do well enough to advance, go home.

They must do things differently at a BR match out in BC
 
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